International News Black Lives Matter

"Exemplary"

Initial account

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said after the shooting: "As I understand the situation the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."

One eyewitness said at the time that Mr Menezes had vaulted over the ticket barriers just inside the entrance to Stockwell station as he was being pursued.

IPCC's findings

"Police radio traffic and accounts from police officers prior to the shooting of Mr Menezes include descriptions that his behaviour was suspicious and inaccurately described his clothing," the report states.

The IPCC team said it understood Mr Menezes did not refuse to obey a challenge prior to being shot, although this is the subject of its Stockwell One investigation. Mr Menezes' actions were "completely innocent", it adds.

Initial reports that he had not obeyed the challenge were repeated in police briefings and became "accepted as fact", the IPCC says.

CCTV evidence showed Mr Menezes did not jump the barrier and was not wearing bulky clothing, it adds.
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bashamwonderland said:
I don't owe anybody anything because of the colour of my skin, and I don't treat anybody differently because of theirs.
Click to expand...

For the first part, you'll never know what you've fully gained - or at least, not been deprived of - due to skin colour. You may have put in all the graft, but you don't what's entrenched inside the mind of the people who gave you the jobs you've had.

Second part, that's fantastic. But don't assume that's the same for everyone, and for some it's not even on a conscious level.
 
cassox said:
EXACTLY!!!
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Where was your solicitor?

Most likely plod read you a mile off and realized you're the kind of poker player who likes to play with their cards up!

With a couple of carefully aimed prods they knew you'd lose your cool and not only 'fess up but spill names as well!
 
chuckbert said:
Can't read the whole article without starting a "free trial", but I have to admit I'm unlikely to be convinced by a Telegraph article describing a movement as "far-left".
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What about Andros Townsend then, are you convinced by him?
 
beyondthefourth said:
For the first part, you'll never know what you've fully gained - or at least, not been deprived of - due to skin colour. You may have put in all the graft, but you don't what's entrenched inside the mind of the people who gave you the jobs you've had.

Second part, that's fantastic. But don't assume that's the same for everyone, and for some it's not even on a conscious level.
Click to expand...

That's the problem with this new puritanism - it can just be used to paint over any situation without any need for actual evidence of its existence.

"You'll never know what you've fully gained"

"You don't know what's entrenched"

"It's not even on a conscious level"

So it's an imaginary, invisible forcefield that presumably only the true believers can see or identify. It's a religion. It cannot technically be disproved so it can be applied to any situation with a simple "well you can't see it". It's quite clever because, just like religion, it can just be lazily brushed over any situation without any expectation that it needs to be explained.
 
YellowTaxi said:
"Exemplary"

"an innocent man was mistaken for a terrorist"

:unsure:
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Yes exemplary.
Roughly 125k police officers in the UK and public trust in the police has increased markedly of late.

Trust in Professions: Long-term trends

Who do you trust? Ipsos MORI's long-term trends research into the professions the public trust most - and least.
www.ipsos.com www.ipsos.com

In terms of an innocent man being shot then I will assume you were not there so have no more idea of what happened then me or that sometimes you need to accept that bad stuff happens. No human is 100% right 100% of the time.

I also hope that you understand that peoples witness statements are their individual belief or perception of what happened not what actually happened. Look at peoples views of a football match as an example!

At times of tension & threat some people have to make a split second call and sometimes that goes wrong.

I`m sure you would rather the police ran away and left the terrorists to get on with it and hundreds suffer for it, in fact why bother with the police..... maybe you are posting from downtown CHOP or CHAZ?

Did you miss the response about the other two cases you highlighted??
 
bashamwonderland said:
That's the problem with this new puritanism - it can just be used to paint over any situation without any need for actual evidence of its existence.

"You'll never know what you've fully gained"

"You don't know what's entrenched"

"It's not even on a conscious level"

So it's an imaginary, invisible forcefield that presumably only the true believers can see or identify. It's a religion. It cannot technically be disproved so it can be applied to any situation with a simple "well you can't see it". It's quite clever because, just like religion, it can just be lazily brushed over any situation without any expectation that it needs to be explained.
Click to expand...

Not like the evidence of, say, the many many accounts of people who have been trying to tell their stories of abuse for decades?

Where people on this forum are saying, "well I don't believe that, because it's not my experience."
 
beyondthefourth said:
Not like the evidence of, say, the many many accounts of people who have been trying to tell their stories of abuse for decades?

Where people on this forum are saying, "well I don't believe that, because it's not my experience."
Click to expand...

Just a caveat to the stories of abuse, it often transpires that some accounts appear after the death of the alleged perpetrator and when there is financial gain to be made.
If there is evidence then it goes to the Police, if the evidence is good enough the perpetrator gets arrested, charged and found guilty in Court.

On the flip side of that coin is individuals who stand up for the victims often pay a very heavy price.
Sara Rowbotham, the sexual health worker who first recognised patterns of child abuse in Rochdale and fought to bring these crimes to police attention, was made redundant in 2014 .
DC Margaret Oliver also resigned in 2012 in disgust of the handling of the cases by the police force and spoke out as a whistleblower to inform the public.
And they "paid the price" because of the "discussion" on whether the failure to investigate them was linked to the authorities' fear of being accused of racial prejudice.

If society goes too far down the positive discrimination path then, eventually, race becomes a "get out of jail free" card for all manner of crimes.
 
I think @beyondthefourth was using the term abuse in its more general sense.

Worrying how @Essexyellows seizes on the term to repeat a well worn racist trope- that child sexual abuse is more common in one community than another and that this has anything to do with “positive discrimination“... or race becoming “ a get out of jail free card”

It’s more likely that race is a “ police smash your windows stop and search you disproportionately and put you in jail” card...
 
beyondthefourth said:
Not like the evidence of, say, the many many accounts of people who have been trying to tell their stories of abuse for decades?

Where people on this forum are saying, "well I don't believe that, because it's not my experience."
Click to expand...

Relying on a mass of anecdotal evidence is an unreliable and dangerous way of substantiating a claim. You will find millions of people across the planet who rely on anecdotal evidence to support their belief in any given religion.

To a less serious extent, there are large bodies of anecdotal evidence to support the idea that ghosts exist. Hundreds of thousands of people across the globe and millions historically are likely to vouch for the idea that spirits and ghosts exist.

It doesn't make it right.

As a note, the comparison I just made isn't perfect because there are race issues in confined areas and sectors. South Africa, parts of the US especially in relation to law and order. These are real issues.

However, the idea of a global institutionalised system of white oppression is no more real than the idea that the Illuminati exists.
 
Nobody said it’s a “global institutionalised system of white oppression” -except you.

There’s plenty of research which confirms that there are racist attitudes prevalent in sections of the population, and that black people tend to face discrimination.

Bringing up straw men, like the fact that people believe in ghosts is just an irrelevance.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Relying on a mass of anecdotal evidence is an unreliable and dangerous way of substantiating a claim. You will find millions of people across the planet who rely on anecdotal evidence to support their belief in any given religion.
Click to expand...

There is clear evidence that police have killed black people in cold blood but I haven't yet seen the evidence of Jesus bringing anyone back to life.

Why do you have to introduce such ridiculous 'comparisons' unless you are seriously struggling to evidence your views?
 
QR said:
There is clear evidence that police have killed black people in cold blood but I haven't yet seen the evidence of Jesus bringing anyone back to life.

Why do you have to introduce such ridiculous 'comparisons' unless you are seriously struggling to evidence your views?
Click to expand...

Oh you're back. On Saturday you got in on a conversation I was having with someone else, to tell me I was wrong to conflate the UK and US BLM messages. I was asking you if @UKBLM was the recognised UK arm of BLM because their Twitter page seemed to suggest that they were. You disagreed and then went silent on me.

You never got back to me with an answer.

And that's the problem with posters like you and YT. You arrive, drop a vague accusation or opinion, and then when someone actually tries to engage you, you both disappear.

So forgive me if I ignore both you and YT from now on.
 
bashamwonderland said:
To a less serious extent, there are large bodies of anecdotal evidence to support the idea that ghosts exist. Hundreds of thousands of people across the globe and millions historically are likely to vouch for the idea that spirits and ghosts exist.
Click to expand...

Not nearly as much of it backed up with video recording of a multitude of incidents.
 
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