National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[Oslernorth]

You must be one of the few people left to believe the side of the bus Brexit bullshit.

That's not an answer. What policies and why are they ineffective?

Were not in the Euro!

What pressure? Our chancellor set spend and tax policies.

Oh, immigrants. I think we might be getting somewhere now.
Given the situation now unfolding this was a plus of being in the EU.

Passing over the fact that democracy requires bureaucracy, Brexit is proving far more bureaucratic.

Beautifully written. It must surely be obvious by now. The World has never stood still, we must all embrace change when it happens

 

[QR]

Beautifully written. It must surely be obvious by now. The World has never stood still, we must all embrace change when it happens

Cheers. I was a bit angry after the game. It concentrates the mind.

 

[bazzer9461]

People in the business are already saying it's not nearly enough. It's lip service for the likes of you I'm afraid.

And you really think these lorry drivers want to spend a second Christmas stuck in Kent. Remember how we treated them last year?

That wasn’t down to us what happens in Kent that was the French refusing to allow them to travel back to France because of Covid? Oh sorry I forgot that covid is Boris’ fault.

“Likes of you?” Care to explain

 

[QR]

That wasn’t down to us what happens in Kent that was the French refusing to allow them to travel back to France because of Covid? Oh sorry I forgot that covid is Boris’ fault.

Yes because of Covid getting out of control again because we relax lockdown rules to early. But anyway I didn't mention cause I was talking about the foul conditions the drivers had to endure.

“Likes of you?” Care to explain

People who swallowed the Brexit bullshit. People who really don't know what they voted for (see your post above). People who can't see the significant role Brexit had played in the s**t show playing out in front of the their eyes.

A certain radio presenter keeps saying 'contempt for the conmen not the conned' but when the con is so bloody obvious and they still can't see it I struggle to subscribe to it.

I don't know you but you sound a bloody nice guy in your posts. However if you keep blaming immigration when a major cause of the problems in transport, agricultural, hospitality, care etc is a lack of staff you really need to be asking yourself some serious questions. Sorry.

 

[bazzer9461]

Yes because of Covid getting out of control again because we relax lockdown rules to early. But anyway I didn't mention cause I was talking about the foul conditions the drivers had to endure.

People who swallowed the Brexit bullshit. People who really don't know what they voted for (see your post above). People who can't see the significant role Brexit had played in the s**t show playing out in front of the their eyes.

A certain radio presenter keeps saying 'contempt for the conmen not the conned' but when the con is so bloody obvious and they still can't see it I struggle to subscribe to it.

I don't know you but you sound a bloody nice guy in your posts. However if you keep blaming immigration when a major cause of the problems in transport, agricultural, hospitality, care etc is a lack of staff you really need to be asking yourself some serious questions. Sorry.

Won’t be blaming immigration as I actually do believe we need immigration to push forward. As Boris has said he wants the Transport firms to pay HGV drivers a fare wage as they pay poor wages similar to what they pay in other countries. These companies are exploiting the overseas HGV drivers
If the transport companies paid a decent wage then they would have a lot of HGV drivers.
There are 1,000’s of job vacancy’s in all sectors of the job market there are also many 1.000’s of people out of work, maybe we are a nation of slackers and people who aren’t at work should get up of their arses and go out and look for these jobs.
Why did many HGV drivers leave the U.K.? They had an opportunity to remain so I’m at a lost as to why they didn’t remain.
A lot of vacancy’s don’t attract enquiries because of the pathetic wage on offer. Care homes offer the very minimal wage in any way they can either for eg minimum wage minus £ 3/ 4 as they are given a room. This is something that should be looked at and dealt with accordingly. Some of these employers are very unscrupulous and should be investigated.

 

[Marked Ox]

Cost of the EU 15 billion a year
Inefficient policies
Problems with the Euro
Pressure towards austerity
Net migration
More bureaucracy less democracy

You need to get the net cost correct and also add in the financial benefits of being in the EU (ie. considerably reduce costs in exporting to our biggest export market).

Talk us through these inefficient policies (with examples) and compare/contrast what our Govt was doing with its policies.

We weren't in the Euro.

Your Political Party absolutely loved austerity but just hid a lot of it by hammering local authorities. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

We had the means to reduce net migration from the EU but successive Govts chose not to implement them but other EU countries had. So the problems were with our Govt and as a result UK citizens now have hassle if they want to work in the EU.

Your last point, what the hell does that mean and exactly how are they linked as you suggest? We are having to increase bureaucracy in this country to take over the functions carried out by the EU (Increased Border Control, Medicines, building customs lorry parks etc etc). And democracy, yep that is going well in this country when Johnson's Govt has tried on a few occasions to cut out Parliament from the decision making which has led to legal challenges. Our Parliament remained sovereign as well anyway.

 

[Marked Ox]

It’s 6
The costs of the EU membership is 15 billion gross

So 15bn is misleading like the side of the bus. And you haven't taken into account the other financial benefits of EU membership.

 

[Marked Ox]

I know we weren’t in the euro and thank god we weren’t we’ve not kicked out immigrants they were given every opportunity to apply for status to remain in the U.K.. as regards the immigrants coming Uber on the boats that’s a different kettle of fish.
Regarding fuel we have plenty what we don’t have are HGV drivers to work for pittance in their field of work.
Goods are here what isn’t it wasn’t here was carbon dioxide for the packaging which is down to soaring energy prices that’s why the government stepped in and paid an American form to start producing carbon dioxide. We can’t control the prices set by the energy companies.

I'm not surprised a fair number of them chose not to apply considering the hostile/negative way they were talked about in the Referendum and afterwards. Why would you stay when the xenophobes were given free reign to target them (if only verbal, nevermind physical) considering the language used by the media/leave campaign (particularly Farage's efforts) if you had options elsewhere?

 

[Marked Ox]

If you haven’t seen it yet the government habe announced 3 month visas for 5,000 HGV drivers and 5,500 for pickers

Many months too late, but least they finally got there in the end.

 

[QR]

Won’t be blaming immigration as I actually do believe we need immigration to push forward. As Boris has said he wants the Transport firms to pay HGV drivers a fare wage as they pay poor wages similar to what they pay in other countries. These companies are exploiting the overseas HGV drivers
If the transport companies paid a decent wage then they would have a lot of HGV drivers.
There are 1,000’s of job vacancy’s in all sectors of the job market there are also many 1.000’s of people out of work, maybe we are a nation of slackers and people who aren’t at work should get up of their arses and go out and look for these jobs.
Why did many HGV drivers leave the U.K.? They had an opportunity to remain so I’m at a lost as to why they didn’t remain.
A lot of vacancy’s don’t attract enquiries because of the pathetic wage on offer. Care homes offer the very minimal wage in any way they can either for eg minimum wage minus £ 3/ 4 as they are given a room. This is something that should be looked at and dealt with accordingly. Some of these employers are very unscrupulous and should be investigated.

Wage stagnation in general has gone hand in hand with the deliberate Tory policy to weaken union powers. This plays straight into to the hands of the 'unscrupulous' employers you mention. But ignore that and blame the EU. That's what I call lazy!

Oh, and if its a good thing and wages are rising why are the issuing emergency visas?

Why did many HGV drivers leave the U.K? You're lost for an explanation? What about the anti immigrant anti EU tirade from the right wing press over the past decade (and more)? What about the truly s**t, with s**t being the operative word, working conditions?

Oh, so you step back from blaming immigrants and start to lay the blame on the 'feckless workshy'. Straight out of the Daily Mail play book. You really couldn't make it up!

 

[QR]

 

[QR]

Why did many HGV drivers leave the U.K.? They had an opportunity to remain so I’m at a lost as to why they didn’t remain.

Here you go @bazzer9461
From the Sunday Times two weeks before the 2016 EU vote.

 

[bazzer9461]

I'm not surprised a fair number of them chose not to apply considering the hostile/negative way they were talked about in the Referendum and afterwards. Why would you stay when the xenophobes were given free reign to target them (if only verbal, nevermind physical) considering the language used by the media/leave campaign (particularly Farage's efforts) if you had options elsewhere?

I thought there were 48% remain voters who could have spoken up in their defence. I may have voted to leave but I was more than happy with the overseas nationals working an honest living in Britain even with my health issues having to go to the hospital fairly regularly and having foreign NHS staff treating me and the occasional British NHS worker helping, so I was /am grateful to the EU nationals and the far wider overseas nationals being here.
Yes there were dickheads who racially abused foreigners and daubed hateful graffiti they’re wankers and have no place in society, they were only a handful and not a majority of the leave voters.
Regarding Farage I would never vote for him but I do believe he was misquoted ( no I’m not taken in by him ) I don’t think he have a toss who was here and where they were from it was the fact that a body of people who were not British weee trying to run Europe and he wanted us U.K. to be accountable, if we want to sell something to the U.K. public and Brussels were saying we weren’t allowed to he and others felt why?

 

[bazzer9461]

Wage stagnation in general has gone hand in hand with the deliberate Tory policy to weaken union powers. This plays straight into to the hands of the 'unscrupulous' employers you mention. But ignore that and blame the EU. That's what I call lazy!

Oh, and if its a good thing and wages are rising why are the issuing emergency visas?

Why did many HGV drivers leave the U.K? You're lost for an explanation? What about the anti immigrant anti EU tirade from the right wing press over the past decade (and more)? What about the truly s**t, with s**t being the operative word, working conditions?

Oh, so you step back from blaming immigrants and start to lay the blame on the 'feckless workshy'. Straight out of the Daily Mail play book. You really couldn't make it up!

Think you misunderstand. If there are 100,000 vacancies as Starmer says then the DWP has to act and those work shy should be told in work within a certain period of time or your benefits will be cut. But if you say all these EU HGV drivers left because of Brexit then I have to say B*****s, that had every chance afforded to them to stay.

 

[QR]

Think you misunderstand. If there are 100,000 vacancies as Starmer says then the DWP has to act and those work shy should be told in work within a certain period of time or your benefits will be cut. But if you say all these EU HGV drivers left because of Brexit then I have to say B*****s, that had every chance afforded to them to stay.

Do you think the workshy will make good HGV drivers?

 

[bazzer9461]

Do you think the workshy will make good HGV drivers?

If they’re trained with a good wage on offer who knows, but if the offer is made even help with the cost towards the training and they refuse then strip them of their benefits, if that is a case of tough then so be it.

 

[QR]

If they’re trained with a good wage on offer who knows, but if the offer is made even help with the cost towards the training and they refuse then strip them of their benefits, if that is a case of tough then so be it.

So they die of starvation (as do their kids if they have any) or they turn to crime. Which do you think it'll be? A bit of both?

Think before you type.

 

[bazzer9461]

So they die of starvation (as do their kids if they have any) or they turn to crime. Which do you think it'll be? A bit of both?

Think before you type.

Well they won’t if they go and find work will they?
And yes I did think before I typed thank you very much

 

[Peterdev]

The government have taken steps to try and rectify the situation of too few drivers. The measures are clearly not enough and the situation is not all to do with brexit. A shortage of drivers is a problem throughout the EU.
The DVSA has in part tried to improve a dire situation by offering more tests per day for qualifying HGV drivers. The problem is unlikely to away any time soon, as the DVSA has now balloted drivers on strike action and they are unfortunately going ahead with strikes.
An increase in wages is mentioned as a way of rectifying the chronic shortage. This would be appealing to plenty of potential HGV drivers.
It looks to me as if the government are trying short term measures to address a situation. I’m not sure many drivers from abroad are willing to come over until Christmas and then get laid off again. It seems as if getting through Christmas is the only thing that matters.
I am disappointed that both Grant Shapps and the leader of the HGV drivers had to cause a panic buy situation with fuel. To say buy what you need is going to cause sell outs of fuel, and of course the fuel depots have instantly increased their prices at the pump.
The situation is not new. Supermarkets last year were unable to replenish supplies in the shops, not because of a shortage, but because they couldn’t get enough staff, because many were in self isolation.
Covid is probably the number one culprit as to the problems we’ve faced over the last two years

 

[QR]

The government have taken steps to try and rectify the situation of too few drivers. The measures are clearly not enough and the situation is not all to do with brexit. A shortage of drivers is a problem throughout the EU.

There are not shortages of the same magnitude in the EU. Believe me. I speak to friends in Germany, France, Italy all the time and they are shocked our government is trying to hide behind this lie. They do not have shortages on shelves or at petrol stations as we do. In some way all medium sized and above businesses have shortages as anytime due to turn over of staff and they get by.