Dominic Cummings and goings ....

Should Dominic Cummings stay or go?

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Oxt1 said:
He wont be pushed for a while, as who would want to step into the PM role at the moment, an ongoing pandemic, Brexit issues still bubbling away, the economy is understandably shot, SNP pushing for another referendum... but I would expect once these things appear to be in a more manageable place the daggers will start to be sharpened!
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Gove would be rabid for the chance.

And quite frankly he deserves to be thrown to the dogs, so now is as good a time as any.

It won't happen of course because that would involve anyone from the PM down having the slightest suggestion of integrity, which of course they don't.

The very fact that ol' shagger Johnson has been abdicating responsibility for practically all his actions since he was a spotty Eton mess, tells you all you need to know about his character.
 
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Marked Ox said:
Tbf, the Care Homes scandal and the dithering over lockdowns, the failure to close borders etc will likely have caused 000s to die needlessly.
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True. But Cummings and now Angela Raynor have said needlessly. I agree we should have closed our borders and no one in one out irrespective of it was business, family illness or holidays but if they had then it would be Labour and others complaining about the effect on the economy the non fairing of loved ones, really can’t win.
There should be know more flight from India And the surrounding regions for the considerable future, and even though the death toll in those areas is high and there are relatives living here, sorry but they can’t go. Also there are people who have got round the quarantine that is required when returning from red list countries by flying to another country then flying to the U.K. from there, surely passport control must know this and if so why aren’t those a**e wipes not being placed in quarantine.
 
Marked Ox said:
Tbf, the Care Homes scandal and the dithering over lockdowns, the failure to close borders etc will likely have caused 000s to die needlessly.
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Regarding care homes yes that is a serious matter but recently the care home association saying a lot of their care workers are refusing to have the jab, surely that is something that has to be addressed.
 
Yes, something has to be done about vaccine refusal in care staff. What that is I don't know.

Yes, lives were needlessly lost when a patient with Covid is sent back to a home from the Hospital without being tested beforehand, and other residents subsequently dying from Covid spreading in that Care Home from the original patient. This was the situation for a Care Home owner who was on Newsnight last night.

The Govt certainly put a ring of steel around Care Homes, unfortunately the steel was shaped into sieves.
 
bazzer9461 said:
Regarding care homes yes that is a serious matter but recently the care home association saying a lot of their care workers are refusing to have the jab, surely that is something that has to be addressed.
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It is being addressed Baz , nobody is shrugging their shoulders and saying, oh well, we tried. The stats I've seen are that some care providers think between 5% and 20% of staff have not been vaccinated (this was admittedly a couple of months back), either because they have a medical reason, or because they are refusing as you say (a number of reasons cited, not least of all cultural and believing some of the horseshit written about vaccine risks). When providers have tried to "enforce" for their employees as part of their terms and conditions, they have realised that employment law will not allow them to do this. Nobody really wants to be the first case to test this in the courts. Instead education, guidance and persuasion are being relied on for the large part, as well as adequate PPE, hygiene and social distancing/shielding measures to mitigate the risks as far as possible (which would still be the case vaccinated or not).

That said, we are still relying massively on people to exercise "common sense" (inside and outside the care setting) and it maybe a bit harsh, but I would not set much store by the common sense of an individual working in a care environment with the elderly and vulnerable, who still refuses a vaccine that might just save the lives of them and those they are in contact with.

The real problem for Care homes was allowing infected patients back into the care environment in the first place....and there are very few places the buck should be stopping for that tragedy.
 
My brother has voluntarily trained as an 'injector' and is now doing two days a week in a midlands centre. He says that it it noticeable how the younger people now being injected are bringing along their older relatives who may have previously refused the jab. ('If I am having it Gran, you can have it too!') - this is especially true of some of the BAME population. Encouraging!
 
Sheik djibouti said:
It is being addressed Baz , nobody is shrugging their shoulders and saying, oh well, we tried. The stats I've seen are that some care providers think between 5% and 20% of staff have not been vaccinated (this was admittedly a couple of months back), either because they have a medical reason, or because they are refusing as you say (a number of reasons cited, not least of all cultural and believing some of the horseshit written about vaccine risks). When providers have tried to "enforce" for their employees as part of their terms and conditions, they have realised that employment law will not allow them to do this. Nobody really wants to be the first case to test this in the courts. Instead education, guidance and persuasion are being relied on for the large part, as well as adequate PPE, hygiene and social distancing/shielding measures to mitigate the risks as far as possible (which would still be the case vaccinated or not).

That said, we are still relying massively on people to exercise "common sense" (inside and outside the care setting) and it maybe a bit harsh, but I would not set much store by the common sense of an individual working in a care environment with the elderly and vulnerable, who still refuses a vaccine that might just save the lives of them and those they are in contact with.

The real problem for Care homes was allowing infected patients back into the care environment in the first place....and there are very few places the buck should be stopping for that tragedy.
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Yes that definitely was an issue but was that the government who preferred that they be sent back to care homes or was that the NHS. And is saying this I’m not trying proportion rhe blame to any individual organisation
 
Essexyellows said:
The search starts now.............. just watching Angela Rayner......... snipping the headlines, saying what was done wrong but not saying what she/they would do differently.
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Do you mean the Labour leader...?!
She did a great job of showing complete outrage and disgust, repeating stat after stat but you’re right, absolutely f**k all to outline what her party sees as the way forward.
As soon as the disgruntled ex employee Cummings slides off into the ether the sooner the point scoring can stop and Labour can provide credible opposition. Ah, hang on....
 
bazzer9461 said:
Yes that definitely was an issue but was that the government who preferred that they be sent back to care homes or was that the NHS. And is saying this I’m not trying proportion rhe blame to any individual organisation
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Just a footnote to the care home situation.
At one stage the NHS couldn`t test for Covid - the specific test didn`t exist only a similar Sars-Cov test or "next best estimate".
Then, once a new test was released for the specific virus, there were supply and capacity issues, as evidenced on this thread.

In amongst all that the flow of patients between hospital & care homes AND vice versa carried on.
Effectively the NHS & Care Homes were throwing ticking bombs at each other.
End result of that: At the NHS end infected staff and other patients and at the care home end the same but their vulnerable populations paid a heavy price.

As for CH staff refusing/declining vaccinations it should be a condition of their employment, much like certain posts in the NHS require mandatory vaccination due to the nature of their work.

If the staff genuinely care then that should outweigh any supposed concerns.
 
Essexyellows said:
Just a footnote to the care home situation.
At one stage the NHS couldn`t test for Covid - the specific test didn`t exist only a similar Sars-Cov test or "next best estimate".
Then, once a new test was released for the specific virus, there were supply and capacity issues, as evidenced on this thread.

In amongst all that the flow of patients between hospital & care homes AND vice versa carried on.
Effectively the NHS & Care Homes were throwing ticking bombs at each other.
End result of that: At the NHS end infected staff and other patients and at the care home end the same but their vulnerable populations paid a heavy price.

As for CH staff refusing/declining vaccinations it should be a condition of their employment, much like certain posts in the NHS require mandatory vaccination due to the nature of their work.

If the staff genuinely care then that should outweigh any supposed concerns.
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But you try telling people there was no covid test back then
 
RyanioBirdio said:
And yet the health secretary is on record saying they could and would be tested. Either they could be and they weren’t or they couldn’t be and he was lying.

A lot of yarn.
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It took some finding from the Covid thread.............however................ YF leading the way.

This was posted by yours truly on April 1st 2020 (it wasn`t a joke)

Essexyellows said:
The Police need the powers because not everyone has the capacity of "common sense".

Testing...... the reality, we have the kit, that kit needs reagents .
There is a limited supply of quantities, for obvious reasons, we can order 500 litres and get 100, that limits how many tests can take place.
We are testing the living inpatients first.
This is NOT a "pee on a stick" test its complex and needs staff in the labs, many of whom are self isolating.
You can`t magic scientists out of nowhere.

Lots of these folk on the periphery are blowing out of their arses compared to the reality.
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So yes they could be tested. Yes they should be tested but in many cases.................. now who do you blame?
 
Essexyellows said:
It took some finding from the Covid thread.............however................ YF leading the way.

This was posted by yours truly on April 1st 2020 (it wasn`t a joke)



So yes they could be tested. Yes they should be tested but in many cases.................. now who do you blame?
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I’ll let you decide whether it all means that we could test and didn’t, or whether we couldn’t test but claimed that we could / were.

It’s one or the other and neither is a great look for Mr Hancock.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
I’ll let you decide whether it all means that we could test and didn’t, or whether we couldn’t test but claimed that we could / were.

It’s one or the other and neither is a great look for Mr Hancock.
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Well we could test, within the capacity we had. :)
However, when the testing was limited, we prioritised the poorly inpatients.
I should think other trusts had to make similar choices on a patient-by-patient basis and MH looked at the "overall" picture.

Does that make him misinformed or a liar?
 
Essexyellows said:
Well we could test, within the capacity we had. :)
However, when the testing was limited, we prioritised the poorly inpatients.
I should think other trusts had to make similar choices on a patient-by-patient basis and MH looked at the "overall" picture.

Does that make him misinformed or a liar?
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Does the health secretary have a right to be so badly and woefully misinformed in such a serious moment, and to be allowed to continue to be so poor for such a long time in that instance? He’s the one person in the whole of the United Kingdom tasked with that role, so whether he’s qualified or remotely up to the task is really important.

At worst he’s a massive liar; at best he’s hopelessly out of his depth. Either way the argument that he has no right to still be in his job is pretty compelling. We keep being told we’re in a war with this virus (wave your flags), so we should probably have people shooting the guns and firing the rockets who are both trustworthy and capable. Any true patriot should want Blighty to win, after all.

Or is that too much like common sense?
 
Essexyellows said:
It took some finding from the Covid thread.............however................ YF leading the way.

This was posted by yours truly on April 1st 2020 (it wasn`t a joke)



So yes they could be tested. Yes they should be tested but in many cases.................. now who do you blame?
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I blame UK Ltd, for not having a testing programme, with adequate capacity, to cope with the unknown, at a moments notice.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Does the health secretary have a right to be so badly and woefully misinformed in such a serious moment, and to be allowed to continue to be so poor for such a long time in that instance? He’s the one person in the whole of the United Kingdom tasked with that role, so whether he’s qualified or remotely up to the task is really important.

At worst he’s a massive liar; at best he’s hopelessly out of his depth. Either way the argument that he has no right to still be in his job is pretty compelling. We keep being told we’re in a war with this virus (wave your flags), so we should probably have people shooting the guns and firing the rockets who are both trustworthy and capable. Any true patriot should want Blighty to win, after all.

Or is that too much like common sense?
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The folk shooting the guns & rockets were fine, whether they had sufficient guns & rockets to hit all the targets is the question.

The hard reality is that testing went a bit like this....

Brian, aged 50, who is a bit chubby, he collapsed at work with silent hypoxia and was brought in by Ambo to A&E, potential Covid.

Doris, aged 89, who is being discharged from hospital to a care home, not symptomatic but the policy is that Nursing Home discharges should be tested.

The Clinicians take samples from both and sends them to the lab, the lab is short of re-agents and capacity so test Brian's sample first, he`s a poorly inpatient.

By the time they test Doris`s positive sample she`s already been discharged............... but been tested.

Hard choices locally, national impact...... can anyone be blamed in such a complex chain?
 
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