+++ FACup 3rd Round 4/1/2020 OUFC V Hartlepool Utd +++

[RyanioBirdio]

He did score it against a National League side, so all he really proved is that he's far too good for the National League, which we all knew already.

Despite his evident quality, are teams really going to part with millions of pounds for a player who has already had quite a few big injuries in his short career, and hasn't yet completed a full season of competitive football at League One level? I know everyone rates the player but this talk of the Premier League from everyone is a bit fanciful.

Do you want to go and look at his goal he scored against Premier League side West Ham, then? The one where he flicked the ball up over a challenge, controlled it, jinked and shimmied past about three other players in the box and then slotted it into the bottom corner?

I’m just saying, by your own logic, we now know he’s good enough?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

He did score it against a National League side, so all he really proved is that he's far too good for the National League, which we all knew already.

He did also score a similarly excellent one vs West Ham ...

 

[battman]

Do you want to go and look at his goal he scored against Premier League side West Ham, then? The one where he flicked the ball up over a challenge, controlled it, jinked and shimmied past about three other players in the box and then slotted it into the bottom corner?

I’m just saying, by your own logic, we now know he’s good enough?

It's not my logic, it's yours, you're the one using a good goal in one game to signify his overall ability. Am I saying Shandon isn't a good player? No, in fact he's a very good one. But if he was as good as you say he is, why isn't he scoring week in, week out? He's scored 4 goals this season, all of them belters, but that's hardly a record to say 'this player's a cut above'.

I think the lad's good and he will be playing in higher divisions in the not too distant future, but the idea that there are clubs out there who're willing to pay any more than a couple of million is wishful thinking.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

We had a comedy Grumpy old bloke in front of us sitting in the South Stand Upper just for a change. The 1st half, he actually provided the entertainment rather than the game. He clearly didn't seem to grasp how we now play the game.

I won't make the mistake of watching from there again though as I felt detached from the game. Tbf, that might be due to having watched from the East Stand, and the London Road before that, for so many years that it is just wrong for me.

I watched a game in the South Stand Upper for the first time in ages the other day, right on the halfway line, and it was great! No-one was moaning around me and the view was excellent. Didn’t like the prices though ?

 

[ttg17]

Do you want to go and look at his goal he scored against Premier League side West Ham, then? The one where he flicked the ball up over a challenge, controlled it, jinked and shimmied past about three other players in the box and then slotted it into the bottom corner?

I’m just saying, by your own logic, we now know he’s good enough?

To be fair, and I know I’ll get pelters for this, that was in stoppage time in a cup game against a team 3-0 down that had totally thrown the towel in. As battman says, if he was as unplayable as we all want to think he is, he would be scoring worldies against L1 sides every week.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

To play devil's advocate here, I think it's possible that many of us, myself included, don't really appreciate the step up in quality from L1 to Championship and Premiership level. Many of our sales in the last few years to teams in the Championship, let alone the Premiership, have simply been average at best in the second tier, and these were players who were comfortably a cut above L1. COD, Johnson, Ledson and Whyte were all too good for this league (or the league we were in at the time in COD's case), and are struggling to get game time at their new clubs, let alone setting the place on fire. Even Roofe took a few years at Leeds to turn into their lead striker. I would agree that Baptiste seems to have more about him than any of them, but only in flashes. Yes he ran the game yesterday, but, with all due respect to Hartlepool, it was against the team 17th in the National League - you would expect that. I think we need to be wary of attaching too high a value to him in our minds, in case that fee is not met and we feel slighted, when the value is likely to be fair considering the standard he is being sold into.

I think you’re absolutely right. Obviously people like to get carried away with our own players, and that’s fair enough - and there’s always the example of Lundstram and Baldock doing well in the Premiership to show that it can be done. However, for every one of those there are far more like Che Adams at Southampton, or Dwight Gayle - players who tear up the Championship, but struggle to make the step up to the Premier League. Imagine if we signed one of those two, they’d very likely score 40+ goals a season in League One (especially in this Oxford team) and we’d be saying they’d smash the PL, but it’s not always as simple as that.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

It's not my logic, it's yours, you're the one using a good goal in one game to signify his overall ability. Am I saying Shandon isn't a good player? No, in fact he's a very good one. But if he was as good as you say he is, why isn't he scoring week in, week out? He's scored 4 goals this season, all of them belters, but that's hardly a record to say 'this player's a cut above'.

I think the lad's good and he will be playing in higher divisions in the not too distant future, but the idea that there are clubs out there who're willing to pay any more than a couple of million is wishful thinking.

He was our best player against both Man City and West Ham. The way he moves with the ball, controls it, twists and turns, breaks the line and moves past multiple players in a single dart... the fact that he scored that type of goal against anybody, let alone twice in one season, is something none of our other players can do. That is the point. You say “Yeah it was only Hartlepool” and my answer is “Yeah, and West Ham, and also none of our other players can do it like he can at all, and that is kind of more the point than who he does it against”. None of our other players can do what he does, full stop. I didn’t make it about the quality of the opposition at all, but if anybody DOES want to go that route, then he can back it up all by himself with the way he has played, and indeed scored, against sides from the top division. I’m merely saying that until our other players can do what he does at all, let alone regularly, let alone against top level sides as he already has done, he’s hardly looking ordinary. Or anything close to.

Ademola Lookman went from Charlton to Everton for over £7m plus add-ons taking it to £10m plus a couple of years ago, with less games under his belt than Baptiste at the same level we operate at. And he hadn’t bossed games against top level opposition the way Baptiste has, so what’s fanciful about it? Alli went from MK Dons in League One to the Spurs starting lineup over the course of a summer. So there are recent precedents, and combined with the ability he shows plus the fact he’s been our best player against two PL sides already, I don’t think there’s any grounds to call Baptiste being sold to a PL side fanciful at all. Nobody can say for sure it will happen, but to say there are strong reasons that he won’t... well, that’s the genuinely fanciful claim, imo.

If only I had any grounding in scouting at any level, and therefore ever spoke to anybody from clubs and recruitment departments full stop, maybe I’d be able to substantiate my claims more. Oh well.

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

He was our best player against both Man City and West Ham. The way he moves with the ball, controls it, twists and turns, breaks the line and moves past multiple players in a single dart... the fact that he scored that type of goal against anybody, let alone twice in one season, is something none of our other players can do. That is the point. You say “Yeah it was only Hartlepool” and my answer is “Yeah, and West Ham, and also none of our other players can do it like he can at all, and that is kind of more the point than who he does it against”. None of our other players can do what he does, full stop. I didn’t make it about the quality of the opposition at all, but if anybody DOES want to go that route, then he can back it up all by himself with the way he has played, and indeed scored, against sides from the top division. I’m merely saying that until our other players can do what he does at all, let alone regularly, let alone against top level sides as he already has done, he’s hardly looking ordinary. Or anything close to.

Ademola Lookman went from Charlton to Everton for over £7m plus add-ons taking it to £10m plus a couple of years ago, with less games under his belt than Baptiste at the same level we operate at. And he hadn’t bossed games against top level opposition the way Baptiste has, so what’s fanciful about it? Alli went from MK Dons in League One to the Spurs starting lineup over the course of a summer. So there are recent precedents, and combined with the ability he shows plus the fact he’s been our best player against two PL sides already, I don’t think there’s any grounds to call Baptiste being sold to a PL side fanciful at all. Nobody can say for sure it will happen, but to say there are strong reasons that he won’t... well, that’s the genuinely fanciful claim, imo.

If only I had any grounding in scouting at any level, and therefore ever spoke to anybody from clubs and recruitment departments full stop, maybe I’d be able to substantiate my claims more. Oh well.

Well said. Baptiste is clearly a very special talent and several rungs ahead of any player we've had in our recent past. Seems a sensible, grounded character too. Just got to hope his body doesn't let him down.

 

[MC Yellow]

He won’t be leaving for £2M End of!

Tiger has to be very very careful here.

We are on the verge of something amazing and any actions taken in this window that blow our chances will P**s too many people off and alienate a growing fan base.

If what we end up with is a potentially great promotion chasing season turning into a “cashing in” bonanza then that will just demonstrate zero ambition to push this club forward and all the talk up until now will have been utter B*****s.

Tiger, please please...... make sure no one leaves during this transfer window and give KR some of the extra resources we have earned over a fantastic few months to strengthen.

Anything less will be sacrilege.

I doubt anyone will have an issue with movements in the summer but now IS NOT the time. Give us every chance possible to go up.

 

[MarkG]

A big chunk of the 4.2m were isolated costs rather than recurring expenses. The training ground alone cost over a million quid to get finished which is now completed, and there were also various hangovers from our beloved former owner that caused significant financial burden that won’t be ongoing concerns. I’m not saying everything is fine and dandy but average yearly losses will likely be significantly less than 4.2m as standard moving forward. Perhaps closer to half that.

To jump onto your second point, you are of course correct and I’ve very much felt that myself for a while - to call him “one of our own” given the age at which he joined and the fact that he also grew up elsewhere (I think even now he still lives in Reading?) is a bit of a stretch. However my understanding is that he was released from Reading as a teen, and so they are owed nothing. As far as I’m aware he didn’t choose to leave and we didn’t purchase him or even transfer his registration from them to us on a free, he was cut loose as a free agent. If that is the case then they aren’t entitled to a penny as they willingly disposed of him. I am 99% sure that is the case.

Ok on point 1 I get there were exceptional costs.

On point 2 , don’t players have a “passport” which tracks all their development ? So even In situations like a player being released , the developing club still get a “sell on” for players sold up to a certain age? I don’t know how it works but for instance Curtis Nelson got a fee for his old club when he signed for us.

 

[Scotchegg]

Tiger has to be very very careful here.

We are on the verge of something amazing and any actions taken in this window that blow our chances will P**s too many people off and alienate a growing fan base.

If what we end up with is a potentially great promotion chasing season turning into a “cashing in” bonanza then that will just demonstrate zero ambition to push this club forward and all the talk up until now will have been utter B*****s.

Tiger, please please...... make sure no one leaves during this transfer window and give KR some of the extra resources we have earned over a fantastic few months to strengthen.

Anything less will be sacrilege.

I doubt anyone will have an issue with movements in the summer but now IS NOT the time. Give us every chance possible to go up.

No one at the club is looking at "cashing in". We all get tied up in speculation and drama during the transfer window, and many read far too much into what is or isn't said, or what they think is or isn't being said. There has been talk all season about some of our players, and Baptiste is the one who has attracted the most interest. But it will take a truly ridiculous offer for him to be sold, and I would imagine that we would be looking at a league 1 record deal. Shandon has been very carefully managed all season. Robinson has held him back from some games and is very much protecting him from everything on and off the pitch. I'm sure that we will get bids, but I will be very very surprised if any are accepted, unless they are on the terms like Dele Alli where he is immediately loaned back to us.

Next week will show our intent for this season with (I think) 3 players coming in to strengthen the squad. But that doesn't mean that we will be selling players to cover the costs. Money was always set aside for this transfer window, and are league position, attendance figures and cup runs has allowed us to add to that budget (even before a potentially big game in the FA Cup 4th (and 5th!) round).

 

[battman]

He was our best player against both Man City and West Ham. The way he moves with the ball, controls it, twists and turns, breaks the line and moves past multiple players in a single dart... the fact that he scored that type of goal against anybody, let alone twice in one season, is something none of our other players can do. That is the point. You say “Yeah it was only Hartlepool” and my answer is “Yeah, and West Ham, and also none of our other players can do it like he can at all, and that is kind of more the point than who he does it against”. None of our other players can do what he does, full stop. I didn’t make it about the quality of the opposition at all, but if anybody DOES want to go that route, then he can back it up all by himself with the way he has played, and indeed scored, against sides from the top division. I’m merely saying that until our other players can do what he does at all, let alone regularly, let alone against top level sides as he already has done, he’s hardly looking ordinary. Or anything close to.

Ademola Lookman went from Charlton to Everton for over £7m plus add-ons taking it to £10m plus a couple of years ago, with less games under his belt than Baptiste at the same level we operate at. And he hadn’t bossed games against top level opposition the way Baptiste has, so what’s fanciful about it? Alli went from MK Dons in League One to the Spurs starting lineup over the course of a summer. So there are recent precedents, and combined with the ability he shows plus the fact he’s been our best player against two PL sides already, I don’t think there’s any grounds to call Baptiste being sold to a PL side fanciful at all. Nobody can say for sure it will happen, but to say there are strong reasons that he won’t... well, that’s the genuinely fanciful claim, imo.

If only I had any grounding in scouting at any level, and therefore ever spoke to anybody from clubs and recruitment departments full stop, maybe I’d be able to substantiate my claims more. Oh well.

The way you're responding, it's like I said the player was s**t and had no chance of playing in the Premier League. In all of the hundreds of players that play in the football league over the years, you've cited two exceptional cases in Alli and Lookman and said there's precedence, implying that selling players for that kind of money is commonplace. All I'm really taking issue with is the fee. As fans we're always likely to over-value our players, can we really say that we got our wanted fees for the likes of Roofe, Lundstram and Ledson?

Premier League clubs don't look towards League One clubs to spend a fortune. They circumnavigate the Championship in order to save money and grab a bargain. Maybe there is a club out there willing to pay something like £5million, but the way it's being spoken about by many on this thread, it's like that's the expectation rather than a more realistic fee. I never said there weren't looking at him, but just because you can prove that there is interest in him, it doesn't mean that they're willing to part with many millions to get him.

 

[MC Yellow]

No one at the club is looking at "cashing in". We all get tied up in speculation and drama during the transfer window, and many read far too much into what is or isn't said, or what they think is or isn't being said. There has been talk all season about some of our players, and Baptiste is the one who has attracted the most interest. But it will take a truly ridiculous offer for him to be sold, and I would imagine that we would be looking at a league 1 record deal. Shandon has been very carefully managed all season. Robinson has held him back from some games and is very much protecting him from everything on and off the pitch. I'm sure that we will get bids, but I will be very very surprised if any are accepted, unless they are on the terms like Dele Alli where he is immediately loaned back to us.

Next week will show our intent for this season with (I think) 3 players coming in to strengthen the squad. But that doesn't mean that we will be selling players to cover the costs. Money was always set aside for this transfer window, and are league position, attendance figures and cup runs has allowed us to add to that budget (even before a potentially big game in the FA Cup 4th (and 5th!) round).

I do so hope you are right.

If any deal has to be done, I totally agree that an immediate loan back is a must. If those terms become a deal breaker, so be it.

 

[MarkG]

No one at the club is looking at "cashing in". We all get tied up in speculation and drama during the transfer window, and many read far too much into what is or isn't said, or what they think is or isn't being said. There has been talk all season about some of our players, and Baptiste is the one who has attracted the most interest. But it will take a truly ridiculous offer for him to be sold, and I would imagine that we would be looking at a league 1 record deal. Shandon has been very carefully managed all season. Robinson has held him back from some games and is very much protecting him from everything on and off the pitch. I'm sure that we will get bids, but I will be very very surprised if any are accepted, unless they are on the terms like Dele Alli where he is immediately loaned back to us.

Next week will show our intent for this season with (I think) 3 players coming in to strengthen the squad. But that doesn't mean that we will be selling players to cover the costs. Money was always set aside for this transfer window, and are league position, attendance figures and cup runs has allowed us to add to that budget (even before a potentially big game in the FA Cup 4th (and 5th!) round).

Opening line “no-one at the club is looking at cashing in” are you obtuse? Of course they are. We just haven’t been told how yet. And presumably you don’t know either.

Or perhaps Tiger has assembled a set of investors who want their own train set and want a premier league side to show off to their mates?

 

[Marked Ox]

Opening line “no-one at the club is looking at cashing in” are you obtuse? Of course they are. We just haven’t been told how yet. And presumably you don’t know either.

Or perhaps Tiger has assembled a set of investors who want their own train set and want a premier league side to show off to their mates?

Tbf, I think they are talking about this transfer window only rather than anything else.

 

[MC Yellow]

Tbf, I think they are talking about this transfer window only rather than anything else.

Certainly that was my perspective.

 

[OUFCGav]

I know it doesn't make it clear, but I think it has to be cumulative. If a team entering the competion at the third qualifying round, wins that and then loses in the fourth qualifying round, they must get £11,250 + £6,250. It can't be the fourth round value.
What's not shown is what a league 1 or 2 team get for losing in the first round, or what a Brighton got for losing in the third round.

It does add up to a tidy sum for a lower team getting through three or four rounds.


View attachment 2684

its only in the preliminary/qualifying rounds that losers get 'prize' money, not the 'proper' rounds. And the amount stated for each round is the prize money for that round. So we have made £225000 so far.

 

[werthersoriginal]

He was our best player against both Man City and West Ham. The way he moves with the ball, controls it, twists and turns, breaks the line and moves past multiple players in a single dart... the fact that he scored that type of goal against anybody, let alone twice in one season, is something none of our other players can do. That is the point. You say “Yeah it was only Hartlepool” and my answer is “Yeah, and West Ham, and also none of our other players can do it like he can at all, and that is kind of more the point than who he does it against”. None of our other players can do what he does, full stop. I didn’t make it about the quality of the opposition at all, but if anybody DOES want to go that route, then he can back it up all by himself with the way he has played, and indeed scored, against sides from the top division. I’m merely saying that until our other players can do what he does at all, let alone regularly, let alone against top level sides as he already has done, he’s hardly looking ordinary. Or anything close to.

Ademola Lookman went from Charlton to Everton for over £7m plus add-ons taking it to £10m plus a couple of years ago, with less games under his belt than Baptiste at the same level we operate at. And he hadn’t bossed games against top level opposition the way Baptiste has, so what’s fanciful about it? Alli went from MK Dons in League One to the Spurs starting lineup over the course of a summer. So there are recent precedents, and combined with the ability he shows plus the fact he’s been our best player against two PL sides already, I don’t think there’s any grounds to call Baptiste being sold to a PL side fanciful at all. Nobody can say for sure it will happen, but to say there are strong reasons that he won’t... well, that’s the genuinely fanciful claim, imo.

If only I had any grounding in scouting at any level, and therefore ever spoke to anybody from clubs and recruitment departments full stop, maybe I’d be able to substantiate my claims more. Oh well.

The thing is , he’s a midfielder who’s only expected to get the odd goal. Great goals are a bonus!

 

[RyanioBirdio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1207357637618212865

Probably a coincidence that a week after one of Talksport’s main people tweeted this, a man wearing a Southampton jacket came and watched Baptiste score a screamer v Lincoln from the press box, immediately began texting and then left before half time had even arrived. Presumably he was bollocking whoever sent him to the game and asking what the hell he was doing watching this chancer.

 

[Jason N]

We're lucky that COD's dad isn't Shandon's agent, he'd have some show reel. He made COD look like a world beater. Shandon is a far far better player, an excellent all round midfielder, becoming a major influence on the team. If we got 1.5 Million for Callum, we should get £6 Million for Shandon.