General Supporters Panel - Yay or Nay?

[Essexyellows]

You forgot to say some of your best friends are black.

My friends are just that friends nothing more complex - I don`t pigeonhole people.

I already have 3 voluntary roles, just a fact. Sorry.

D- "must try harder".

 

[QR]

I actually very much enjoy being in a very diverse crowd of people that isn`t segregated in any way.

It's not all about you.

Na, I think you'll find it is.

I do rather a lot of that myself thank you

 

[Scotchegg]

That is making a huge assumption that the experience is currently enjoyable, crowds of 6k or so suggest it isn`t now the post-Covid "excitement" has started to wane.

And, as if by magic, we are back to that bottom level of Maslow again .......... basics first.

Pricing structure.
Clean, functioning facilities.
Better food options.
"Things to do" that avoid folk racking up at 5 to 3 and getting off-site as quick as possible.

Now I understand the Club don`t have much influence over some of that but they could at least make progress in that direction..... basics before "pleasantries".

You often (mis)quote Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The first step is indeed Physiological Needs - air, food, water etc, but that also includes shelter. Being safe is a very basic need, and that is very much down to an individuals perception of risk. To you, attending a football game which, in your words, has an image of drunken young men knocking seven barrels out of each other is safe. But those who have different backgrounds, young families, women, the elderly, ethnic minorities, LGBT+ communities etc, may not feel so safe or welcomed.

You talk about crowds of 6,000 being an issue, but seem reluctant to accept taht there are many different ways that we as a club can look to broaden our fan base.

October is Black History Month. Why not reach out to BAME communities for one game where we celebrate the black players who have represented Oxford past and present? The Terrace produced a balck out evrsion of the Milk Cup Winning shirt. We could do the same with our current kit for that game with shirts auctioned off for community projects.

We could do a Pride game with a rainbow version of the home shirt? Or a combat version for a military day? Or a game dedicated to the NHS, emergency services and those responsible for developing and delivering the vaccination. Or a double header of the woman's team playing before/after the mens game at the Kassam to encourage a crossover between supporters?

Many of these ideas would be seen as "woke" and unneccesary by many on here, but if it opens up our fan base then that can only be a good thing.

 

[bazzer9461]

You forgot to say some of your best friends are black.

How pathetic

 

[Essexyellows]

You often (mis)quote Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The first step is indeed Physiological Needs - air, food, water etc, but that also includes shelter. Being safe is a very basic need, and that is very much down to an individuals perception of risk. To you, attending a football game which, in your words, has an image of drunken young men knocking seven barrels out of each other is safe. But those who have different backgrounds, young families, women, the elderly, ethnic minorities, LGBT+ communities etc, may not feel so safe or welcomed.

You talk about crowds of 6,000 being an issue, but seem reluctant to accept taht there are many different ways that we as a club can look to broaden our fan base.

October is Black History Month. Why not reach out to BAME communities for one game where we celebrate the black players who have represented Oxford past and present? The Terrace produced a balck out evrsion of the Milk Cup Winning shirt. We could do the same with our current kit for that game with shirts auctioned off for community projects.

We could do a Pride game with a rainbow version of the home shirt? Or a combat version for a military day? Or a game dedicated to the NHS, emergency services and those responsible for developing and delivering the vaccination. Or a double header of the woman's team playing before/after the mens game at the Kassam to encourage a crossover between supporters?

Many of these ideas would be seen as "woke" and unneccesary by many on here, but if it opens up our fan base then that can only be a good thing.

We already do a Military day, we already do the rainbow laces and corner flags and all those "different backgrounds" you mention already attend, maybe you need to open your eyes a little?

You often espouse about people on the breadline, low incomes, call it what you like - young families & the traditionally larger ethnic families are already excluded by cost.

Nothing "woke" about that, it's just facts.

 

[Sarge]

My mum was going to games from hufc days through to a weeks before she died ten years or so ago , st holder for most of that time....my sister is a st holder....both my daughters are more than occasionals at home games....my middle grand daughter is a year of the ox junior member..... ive never heard any of them say theyve had any issues .....that said thats not saying no issues exist for females at oufc home games, though my mum, sister , daughters and grad daughter would certainly had something to say if they had experienced any

 

[Scotchegg]

We already do a Military day, we already do the rainbow laces and corner flags and all those "different backgrounds" you mention already attend, maybe you need to open your eyes a little?

You often espouse about people on the breadline, low incomes, call it what you like - young families & the traditionally larger ethnic families are already excluded by cost.

Nothing "woke" about that, it's just facts.

It's not only about those who attend, but those who don't for various reasons. Cost may be an issue, and the stadium is not particularly welcoming. But we are where we are, and the club are losing millions every year as it is. So we may not be able to reduce the cost, but we can do other things to improve the matchday experience which may offer greater value for money.

You mention military days, which are great, but why not extend that (or give alternative times) to all the emergency services? Just with the Prison Service alone, we have Bullingdon, Huntercombe, Aylesbury, Grendon and Woodhill all within 45 mins of the Kassam. TV Police employ nearly 9000 people. The JR and Oxford hospitals employ thousands.

Rainbow laces and corner flags are great, but too easy to be hidden away. A rainbow shirt would really show how the club value those from the LGBT+ communities as well as having a collectors item to sell or auction off.

I'm not saying that we'll sell out every week with these kind of events, but they may just help bring a few hundred more through the gates and every one of them should be made to feel very welcome.

 

[OxfordYankee]

When a single current male professional footballer comes out and is truly accepted, then I think LGBTQ people might start to believe the men’s game is safe and welcoming. Until then, like the players themselves, it’s understandable that many may feel wary or uncomfortable.

 

[chuckbert]

My mum was never going to be a fan, but when dad was going on his own in his early 70s she would have gone to keep him company, and didn’t because of the vibe the one time she went collecting for CRUK outside the stadium. She didn’t even come when we did the whole lunch thing when my boy was a mascot.

I’m not pretending that somehow football should reinvent itself to be attractive to old women who don’t like football (she would never have gone anywhere near the Manor!), but it is an example where someone might have put an extra few grand into the coffers over the years and chose not to.

It’s an easy trap to fall into saying “I know women/lgbt people who are happy going, so there’s not much of a problem”. You have to look at who is NOT going and wonder why.

There are traditional football demographic white men of all classes and ages who are not going, so it’s not like everything’s right. The quality of football and excitement over the last few seasons has been pretty good, so that’s not the reason …

 

[werthersoriginal]

When a single current male professional footballer comes out and is truly accepted, then I think LGBTQ people might start to believe the men’s game is safe and welcoming. Until then, like the players themselves, it’s understandable that many may feel wary or uncomfortable.

This is odd isn’t, there must be lots of gay players but no one has stepped forward.

 

[bazzer9461]

This is odd isn’t, there must be lots of gay players but no one has stepped forward.

The last one well the only gay player that I heard of was the late Justin Fashanu

 

[Marked Ox]

This is odd isn’t, there must be lots of gay players but no one has stepped forward.

The only ones who have come out recently that I can think of have been when they just retired and the odd player from the US.

I believe Nathan Ashmore (Bromley Keeper, I think) has recently got homophobic and racist abuse in games but don't know if he is actually gay or it is opposition fans being bigots.

 

[Essexyellows]

It's not only about those who attend, but those who don't for various reasons. Cost may be an issue, and the stadium is not particularly welcoming. But we are where we are, and the club are losing millions every year as it is. So we may not be able to reduce the cost, but we can do other things to improve the matchday experience which may offer greater value for money.

You mention military days, which are great, but why not extend that (or give alternative times) to all the emergency services? Just with the Prison Service alone, we have Bullingdon, Huntercombe, Aylesbury, Grendon and Woodhill all within 45 mins of the Kassam. TV Police employ nearly 9000 people. The JR and Oxford hospitals employ thousands.

Rainbow laces and corner flags are great, but too easy to be hidden away. A rainbow shirt would really show how the club value those from the LGBT+ communities as well as having a collectors item to sell or auction off.

I'm not saying that we'll sell out every week with these kind of events, but they may just help bring a few hundred more through the gates and every one of them should be made to feel very welcome.

Cost - Why not? It`s probably the biggest hurdle stopping families attending. So why not 1st adult pays, 2nd adult pays 50% kids go free?

Rainbow laces/flags - National campaign is it not - hey even I noticed.

As for things like the Major Employers/NHS/Public sector I`m 100% on that, around these parts Tigers often do a deal for the "less attractive" games. Normally limited to a couple of blocks of seats that aren`t the best but £10 for Premiership rugby gets us every time. Do OUFC do similar or is it cheaper to have an empty seat with no income?

The "excuse" (yes- I know it's a fact) of losing millions won`t be cutting it for long when it is loose change to the board.

 

[rosieburns]

Cost - Why not? It`s probably the biggest hurdle stopping families attending. So why not 1st adult pays, 2nd adult pays 50% kids go free?

Rainbow laces/flags - National campaign is it not - hey even I noticed.

As for things like the Major Employers/NHS/Public sector I`m 100% on that, around these parts Tigers often do a deal for the "less attractive" games. Normally limited to a couple of blocks of seats that aren`t the best but £10 for Premiership rugby gets us every time. Do OUFC do similar or is it cheaper to have an empty seat with no income?

The "excuse" (yes- I know it's a fact) of losing millions won`t be cutting it for long when it is loose change to the board.

In a conversation you and I had with another fourm member. You NOTICED his post about how he did not care about the laws around gender identity,
And how he declined to answer when I asked him how he would deal with the issue if his children came to him and said they were transgender.
You noticed his post with a 'LIKE'.
So maybe your not so inclusive as you think you are.

 

[Essexyellows]

In a conversation you and I had with another fourm member. You NOTICED his post about how he did not care about the laws around gender identity,
And how he declined to answer when I asked him how he would deal with the issue if his children came to him and said they were transgender.
You noticed his post with a 'LIKE'.
So maybe your not so inclusive as you think you are.

Or maybe I just pressed a button on an internet forum in agreement with the wider context of the post/thread?

Noticing something doesn`t mean you have to agree wholeheartedly you can still have your own thoughts & opinions .............. for now.

 

[Jolteon]

I can't believe this discussion is happening again. How hard is it to understand that if you're a straight, white, male at a football match - no matter who you are or who you know - you have absolutely no idea what it's like being a woman/LGBT/PoC at a football match and have no say over whether they should or shouldn't feel safe. As an LGBT+, white male I have no idea how a woman would feel other than what they tell me - and my fiance who has been to one OUFC game told me she was not totally comfortable and did not feel entirely safe unless I was with her. That was in 2018 and she has not been and probably won't go to a game again.

It baffles me that trying to be accommodating, helpful and welcoming to those who need it to feel safe at the football is such a contentious issue. If a woman wants to be loud and boisterous with the blokes in the East Stand - brilliant, all power to them and I hope they sing their hearts out. But just because they want to, doesn't mean all women want to or feel able to - and a safe space for those who want to be away from the boisterousness has no affect on those that want to be. Nobody is saying we have to take away the atmosphere or force people to sit down and shut up - but adding a section in the South Stand or wherever that is designated a "safe zone" where say a single mother with a young, football mad child could go, or someone with autism who may struggle being in with the bulk of the crowd, or a group of young women who otherwise don't feel safe could go - what bloody harm does that do to the white dudes who want to drink and be manly?!

Unfortunately, homophobia and sexism are ingrained within our sport. It's not a majority, and I'm sure most here have never expressed homophobic or sexist sentiments in their life. But when at 15, playing for a local youth team, before I was "out", I was subjected to some vile homophobic abuse from one of the opposition parents - it becomes difficult to feel welcome in the sport. I was a tough tackling left back who tended to go in heavy to make up for the fact I stopped growing at 13, and the dad couldn't take the fact his star right winger son kept getting tackled by this short, skinny kid with long, "girly" hair. So he called me a poof, a bender and a fag for 90 minutes and I went home after that game and wanted to die. I didn't "come out" til I was 19 and that was a big setback and also stopped me attending football matches for a while - I was a regular at Brackley Town attending all home games and had been since I was 11. I didn't go to another game until the 2010 Playoff Final - which thankfully was a major factor in bringing me back to the sport.

I've tended not to really tell that story - but hopefully it puts into perspective that our sport is NOT perfect - and we need to do what we can to help those who love the game, but don't feel welcomed by it, rather than being scared that the status quo will change if we do so.

 

[rosieburns]

Or maybe I just pressed a button on an internet forum in agreement with the wider context of the post/thread?

Noticing something doesn`t mean you have to agree wholeheartedly you can still have your own thoughts & opinions .............. for now.

Nothing wrong in opinions, but the issue he had was that you cannot change gender, and did not care about the
Something you also agree with ?

 

[bazzer9461]

I can't believe this discussion is happening again. How hard is it to understand that if you're a straight, white, male at a football match - no matter who you are or who you know - you have absolutely no idea what it's like being a woman/LGBT/PoC at a football match and have no say over whether they should or shouldn't feel safe. As an LGBT+, white male I have no idea how a woman would feel other than what they tell me - and my fiance who has been to one OUFC game told me she was not totally comfortable and did not feel entirely safe unless I was with her. That was in 2018 and she has not been and probably won't go to a game again.

It baffles me that trying to be accommodating, helpful and welcoming to those who need it to feel safe at the football is such a contentious issue. If a woman wants to be loud and boisterous with the blokes in the East Stand - brilliant, all power to them and I hope they sing their hearts out. But just because they want to, doesn't mean all women want to or feel able to - and a safe space for those who want to be away from the boisterousness has no affect on those that want to be. Nobody is saying we have to take away the atmosphere or force people to sit down and shut up - but adding a section in the South Stand or wherever that is designated a "safe zone" where say a single mother with a young, football mad child could go, or someone with autism who may struggle being in with the bulk of the crowd, or a group of young women who otherwise don't feel safe could go - what bloody harm does that do to the white dudes who want to drink and be manly?!

Unfortunately, homophobia and sexism are ingrained within our sport. It's not a majority, and I'm sure most here have never expressed homophobic or sexist sentiments in their life. But when at 15, playing for a local youth team, before I was "out", I was subjected to some vile homophobic abuse from one of the opposition parents - it becomes difficult to feel welcome in the sport. I was a tough tackling left back who tended to go in heavy to make up for the fact I stopped growing at 13, and the dad couldn't take the fact his star right winger son kept getting tackled by this short, skinny kid with long, "girly" hair. So he called me a poof, a bender and a fag for 90 minutes and I went home after that game and wanted to die. I didn't "come out" til I was 19 and that was a big setback and also stopped me attending football matches for a while - I was a regular at Brackley Town attending all home games and had been since I was 11. I didn't go to another game until the 2010 Playoff Final - which thankfully was a major factor in bringing me back to the sport.

I've tended not to really tell that story - but hopefully it puts into perspective that our sport is NOT perfect - and we need to do what we can to help those who love the game, but don't feel welcomed by it, rather than being scared that the status quo will change if we do so.

Well written @Jolteon but without starting and argument and to put things into context, I have not seen anything at OUFC where women have been made to feel safe. I do like the adding of a section for women whether they are alone or a single parent or indeed just a mum with her youngsters who feel a safer and more inviting are for them to be in ( and yes I think the south stand would be the best ) it could be for a trial period.
I’m sorry you had to endure that vile abuse when you wee was skinny lad tackling a right winger who’s father was a t**t. But we are now more LGBT friendly and respectful to women that people who aren’t, are the thick Neanderthal brainless idiots. I me sure if someone is Vocal towards an LGBT or a female or anyone sporting a disability should be removed from the ground and if a ST holder have that luxury removed and banned for a period of time.

But tbf I haven’t heard anything to warrant anything from the club and seeing women afraid and feeling vulnerable. But yes a trail area for people who feel vulnerable is a good idea.

All the best mate.

 

[WuTang]

This is odd isn’t, there must be lots of gay players but no one has stepped forward.

Not a player, but there is a referee.

"I've not had any homophobic abuse thrown at me, and I can't tell you a story where I've had to combat or overcome that."

Nice article, worth a read.

Also worth mentioning that gay players might not come out simply because they prefer to keep their private life.. private. Probably preferable than being thrown across all the newspapers.

'I'm an openly gay man in football'

To mark National Coming Out Day, EFL referee James Adcock speaks publicly for the first time about his sexuality.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Essexyellows]

Nothing wrong in opinions, but the issue he had was that you cannot change gender, and did not care about the
Something you also agree with ?

Depends if we are talking about the sequential hermaphroditism that occurs in nature, but isn`t a human ability, or gender reassignment surgery.

A person can want to change their gender and follow the long, emotional & painful process to do so, but does that make them completely the gender they wish to be?
I can`t answer that myself, but the law says it is possible under the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

Now that legislation itself isn`t deemed good enough by the EU and I think Scotland are looking at/have changed it (?) so people can self-identify which, in my humble opinion, is way too far the other way.

Anyway - did you apply to be on the panel?