National News Shamima Begum

[MustardYellow]

Yes, this is what I was thinking. If the most serious crime was joining a terrorist organisation.....as a 15 year old, then as you say, I can't think that the punishment would be all that draconian, especially when you take mitigating factors into consideration.

Those mitigating factors being that the courts have already established in earlier rulings that there was "credible suspicion" that she was groomed and trafficked to Syria for sexual exploitation. The court also found that there were “arguable breaches of duty” by state authorities in having allowed her to make the journey to Syria.

So all in all, not that much to throw at her and she then becomes a life long problem for the state.

You would imagine (or hope!) that there's been an investigation into her current ties to ISIS. Ie, is she still in contact or connected to them or anyone associated with them in any way. If she isn't, then that becomes a big problem for the Government and CPS if she comes back - it would be very difficult to prove she is still an active threat. Her defence would paint it up as a disenfranchised young muslim girl groomed by older manipulative men who wanted to exploit and brainwash her. She realised her mistakes, cut all ties with any terror organisation and wants to return home to her family.

A lot of people are forgetting that (rightly) the justice system should be based on fact and proof, rather than 'might be's' and 'could's'.

 

[chuckbert]

I'm struggling to find meaning in your comparison to what Begum has done, with a case of truancy. It's minimising the gravity of her actions to an absurd level.

It’s frustrating because I know you’re not hard of thinking, so I can only start drawing the same conclusions as Marston.

 

[bashamwonderland]

It’s frustrating because I know you’re not hard of thinking, so I can only start drawing the same conclusions as Marston.

Then I can only urge you to ignore me.

 

[holdsteady]

I think that's a separate point, because things like the sex offenders register are implemented and maintained by the police rather than it being something that is socially enforced. But even then, it's a fine balance between managing risk from those who may reoffend and allowing those who have acknowledged their crimes and are trying to change, to do so. I think working under the assumption that anyone who has committed a crime is an inherent threat and bound to reoffend is counterproductive.

And is it human nature, or is it just how we've been taught to behave? We're all born surrounded by judgment and those who judge others based on one solitary action, so maybe we just learn to be that way based on our environment? It's also partly a choice to be that way.

Its a choice based on protecting those you care for, the young, elderly and vulnerable though, so I would say that's a fairly good part of human nature.

If you have committed a very serious crime such as murder you have already shown what you are capable of, hardly unfair that you are judged and considered capable of that same act again., the rest of society which hasn't done such a thing is allowed some protection. What that protection involves and to what extent is determined by the circumstances obviously, someone in the heat of the moment killing someone won't get exactly the same treatment as a serial killer who eats their victims.

 

[MustardYellow]

Its a choice based on protecting those you care for, the young, elderly and vulnerable though, so I would say that's a fairly good part of human nature.

If you have committed a very serious crime such as murder you have already shown what you are capable of, hardly unfair that you are judged and considered capable of that same act again., the rest of society which hasn't done such a thing is allowed some protection. What that protection involves and to what extent is determined by the circumstances obviously, someone in the heat of the moment killing someone won't get exactly the same treatment as a serial killer who eats their victims.

How are you protecting anyone by making presumptions about people you don't really know? It's the assumption that those who have done wrong before are bound to do so again, which just isn't fair. I'd also suggest it's not a very healthy way to interact with the world.

I have a perspective most don't because I've worked with ex-prisoners and before their crimes most of them would've told you they weren't capable of them. One thing a particular guy said to me that has always stuck is he believed we're all capable of anything under the right (or wrong) conditions/set of circumstances, and he's probably right.

Murder is obviously an extreme example because it's final - it's the ending of someone's life. The majority of other crimes aren't final, though.

 

[Peterdev]

Very appropriate

 

[Essexyellows]

I struggle with the fact that we are dumping our problems on the other side of the world. Why should the Kurds have to deal with this?

9mm bullets are cheap?

Aside from that, her choice was not "spur of the moment", it took a lot of preplanning/financing etc. And she carried it through to the point of stealing her sisters passport.

She then found out that it wasn`t all it was cracked up to be as a woman in a Medieval death cult. Oh dear.

She then found out medical care and all the nice things she hated about "The West" weren`t available there. Oh dear.

She has not, as yet, renounced anything she chose to do either at the age of 15 or now that she is 24. She`s had plenty of adult time to think about it.

As the judgement said "Our only task is to assess if the deprivation decision was unlawful. We have concluded it was not, and the appeal is dismissed.” Oh dear.