International News Americans with guns ....

[Marked Ox]

I still think there is a distinction between a single shot hunting rifle and a semi-automatic assault rifle with extendable magazine capacity.

Each has a purpose, although entering a school with either should be condemned by all...

Chuck in some ownership of heavy machine guns (.50 cal and US Army standard GPMG etc) etc as well. Remember watching a programme on US kids having guns and I can vividly remember a pre teen firing a .50 calibre machine gun and just being bounced around as they fired.

 

[Jason N]

Quite rightly, this sort of tragedy is highlighted within the media, but I wonder how the following stats would compare?

America:
One young person shoots another in a dispute or even a threat gone wrong.

UK:
One young person stabs another in a dispute or even a threat gone wrong.

Forgetting the specifics of which weapon was used to harm or murder, do the numbers tally up.

I don't usually comment on these types of thread, as I am not a political person and don't care for or really understand much of it. But I do think there is a trend of younger people not showing the respect or really understanding the consequences of their actions within society.

I remember when I was younger, I was taught to show respect to my elders, teachers, the Police and those perceived to be in authority. This respect or reasoning seems to be diminishing year-on-year, in my view.

It is probably that I am just an old fart now, and I don't understand that you have to earn respect before it can be given.

 

[Wallop]

It was widely reported by credible news outlets last night that there are an average of 350 mass shootings in the US every year. A mass shooting is defined as an incident where 4 or more people are shot (not necessarily killed).

 

[OUFCGav]

Texas Senator Ted Cruz rejects gun reform.
He goes on to say.

he said that restricting the rights of "law-abiding citizens... doesn't work. It's not effective. It doesn't prevent crime."

Someone is getting financial assistance from the gun lobby.

"only" $176000 from the NRA. 19 other senators have taken more than $1million, topped by Mitt Romney at $13.6million.

 

[OUFCGav]

Isn't the problem that the genie is out of the bottle, and has been for a long time in the USA? If you could introduce gun controls and get the vast majority of guns handed in and destroyed, then it might work. But if it was tried, I can't help thinking that there would be a large amount of people (if not the majority) who would not be willing to disarm - and it would be the reasonable people who would do so. The madmen, rednecks, NRA members, criminals, survivalists etc would certainly not.

Don't misunderstand, I hate guns - but I am not sure how the US can get from a state where you have a country awash with unsafely held, largely unregistered, murderous weaponry to a more normal position. I guess that tightening restrictions on those buying new weapons would be a start, but I'm not sure it is more than tinkering around the edges of the problem.

Yes, but would still help. If it can stop teenagers now going and buying a number of assault rifles and vast amounts of ammunition before going off and shooting children then it is better than nothing. And the current fingers in ears wishing "thoughts and prayers" attitude is doing nothing.
Being shot is the number one cause of child death in USA - and only the USA.
In less than 5 years there have been over 100 school shootings in USA, over 2000 since 1970. More than the rest of the world combined.
Since 2013 there have been over 2000 mass shootings in USA (defined as being 4 or more people injured/killed). More than any other country in the world.
USA has the highest per capita gun ownership - 120 per 100 population (yes, that is 1.2 guns for every adult & child). That is more than twice the level of the next highest, Yemen at 53 per 100.

 

[Big Ron]

Quite rightly, this sort of tragedy is highlighted within the media, but I wonder how the following stats would compare?

America:
One young person shoots another in a dispute or even a threat gone wrong.

UK:
One young person stabs another in a dispute or even a threat gone wrong.

Forgetting the specifics of which weapon was used to harm or murder, do the numbers tally up.

I don't usually comment on these types of thread, as I am not a political person and don't care for or really understand much of it. But I do think there is a trend of younger people not showing the respect or really understanding the consequences of their actions within society.

I remember when I was younger, I was taught to show respect to my elders, teachers, the Police and those perceived to be in authority. This respect or reasoning seems to be diminishing year-on-year, in my view.

It is probably that I am just an old fart now, and I don't understand that you have to earn respect before it can be given.

Having a quick look - there were 46,000 or so recorded knife or 'sharp instrument' crimes (Gov stats don't seem to break out bottles, screwdrivers, etc) recorded in the UK in the year up March 2021 and 224 homicides - that would equate to 1 per 303,571 of the population.

In the US, there were around 19,250 gun homicides, which equates to 1 per 16,743 of the population.

The two are not directly comparable (not least of all because carrying a gun is legal in the US but carrying a sharp object here isn't) but the one takeaway is that there is a lot less chance of getting stabbed in the UK than shot in the US!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Quite rightly, this sort of tragedy is highlighted within the media, but I wonder how the following stats would compare?

America:
One young person shoots another in a dispute or even a threat gone wrong.

UK:
One young person stabs another in a dispute or even a threat gone wrong.

Forgetting the specifics of which weapon was used to harm or murder, do the numbers tally up.

I don't usually comment on these types of thread, as I am not a political person and don't care for or really understand much of it. But I do think there is a trend of younger people not showing the respect or really understanding the consequences of their actions within society.

I remember when I was younger, I was taught to show respect to my elders, teachers, the Police and those perceived to be in authority. This respect or reasoning seems to be diminishing year-on-year, in my view.

It is probably that I am just an old fart now, and I don't understand that you have to earn respect before it can be given.

I don't know about the age of the perpetrators, but https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime is interesting.

Basically the murder rate in the US is about 4 times higher than here and, unsurprisingly, the number of murders with a firearm is over 130 times higher. So I'd say that at least some of the murders committed with a gun in the US are committed with some other weapon here, but that the common ownership of guns makes murders multiple times more likely.

 

[Scotchegg]

Last year the number of murders throughout the UK was 594 (the lowest in 5 years). This is 9.9 murders per million population.

In the US in 2020 there were 19,400 murders, and this is rising. That is around 58 murders per million population.

Also significantly more life changing injuries and accidental deaths due to guns rather than knives being the weapon of choice.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Yes, but would still help. If it can stop teenagers now going and buying a number of assault rifles and vast amounts of ammunition before going off and shooting children then it is better than nothing.

I don't disagree - they should of course bring in such controls. I just meant that it wouldn't be a full solution.

 

[SteMerritt]

Having a quick look - there were 46,000 or so recorded knife or 'sharp instrument' crimes (Gov stats don't seem to break out bottles, screwdrivers, etc) recorded in the UK in the year up March 2021 and 224 homicides - that would equate to 1 per 303,571 of the population.

In the US, there were around 19,250 gun homicides, which equates to 1 per 16,743 of the population.

The two are not directly comparable (not least of all because carrying a gun is legal in the US but carrying a sharp object here isn't) but the one takeaway is that there is a lot less chance of getting stabbed in the UK than shot in the US!

THIS PAGE talks about Knife Crime Statistics.

 

[Big Ron]

Last year the number of murders throughout the UK was 594 (the lowest in 5 years). This is 9.9 murders per million population.

In the US in 2020 there were 19,400 murders, and this is rising. That is around 58 murders per million population.

Also significantly more life changing injuries and accidental deaths due to guns rather than knives being the weapon of choice.

I saw that 'accidental' figure and it was about 2,300 deaths in 2021, along with 20,000+ suicides by gun!

 

[Jason N]

Last year the number of murders throughout the UK was 594 (the lowest in 5 years). This is 9.9 murders per million population.

In the US in 2020 there were 19,400 murders, and this is rising. That is around 58 murders per million population.

Also significantly more life changing injuries and accidental deaths due to guns rather than knives being the weapon of choice.

Well, that is surprising that the number of murders went down during the pandemic. I could'of murdered my Mrs umpteen times during lock downs!!!

 

[Scotchegg]

Well, that is surprising that the number of murders went down during the pandemic. I could'of murdered my Mrs umpteen times during lock downs!!!

The numbers had increases in the first year, but this included the 30+ chinese people found dead in the back of a lorry which was classed as murder and represented over 5% of all cases.

There were serious concerns that there would be an increase in domestic incidents as well as suicides due to the lockdown. Thankfully (for Mrs N) the stats don't show that this was the case.

 

[OUFCGav]

I saw that 'accidental' figure and it was about 2,300 deaths in 2021, along with 20,000+ suicides by gun!

I think the figure for accidental gun death at the hands of a child less than 5 was more than 1 a week.

 

[tonyw]

I don't know about the age of the perpetrators, but https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime is interesting.

Basically the murder rate in the US is about 4 times higher than here and, unsurprisingly, the number of murders with a firearm is over 130 times higher. So I'd say that at least some of the murders committed with a gun in the US are committed with some other weapon here, but that the common ownership of guns makes murders multiple times more likely.

At the 2017 London Bridge attack, three jihadists tried to indiscriminately kill as many people as possible using knives and vehicles. Eight minutes elapsed between the first emergency call and armed officers arriving on the scene to shoot dead the perpetrators. The death toll was eight.

At the 2019 Dayton shooting, one lone nutjob tried to indiscriminately kill as many people as possible and he had a semi-automatic rifle. 32 seconds elapsed between the first shot being fired and armed officers shooting the perpetrator dead. The death toll was nine.

It's an unfortunate fact of life, that you're going to get the occasional deranged, evil psychopath. But when anyone can buy, almost unrestricted, the latest killing machine - more easily than they can buy a car - then orders of magnitude more innocents are going to continue to die in these rampages.

You're right when you say that full gun control - as we might understand it in the UK - is never going to happen in America. The second amendment, along with twisted notions of what personal freedom really means, are too deeply ingrained. As is hatred and distrust of government. But there are a million smaller common sense steps that could be taken to lessen the odds of another school mass murder happening tomorrow.

They're not going to happen though, at least on a federal level - in fact, laws might go backwards if the conservative Supreme Court rules against the state of New York's restrictive laws on the right to publicly carry later this year. And it's all because of greed and lust for power......
(although one place you won't be allowed to carry guns? The NRA convention in Houston later this week.....at least when Trump is speaking).



I am now American, but I've basically given up on the idea of a United States of America.
The federal government is impotent, so the sooner the country devolves into a loose collection of 50 independent states (as, to be honest, most of the Founding Fathers intended), and I can reside in my blue state safe in the knowledge that the laws at least somewhat align with my principles, the better.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

I don't usually comment on these types of thread, as I am not a political person and don't care for or really understand much of it. But I do think there is a trend of younger people not showing the respect or really understanding the consequences of their actions within society.

I remember when I was younger, I was taught to show respect to my elders, teachers, the Police and those perceived to be in authority. This respect or reasoning seems to be diminishing year-on-year, in my view.

It is probably that I am just an old fart now, and I don't understand that you have to earn respect before it can be given.

I have always found this to be something that every generation is accused of.

In the 50's it was the Teddy Boys, then the mods., then the punks., the moral outcry that led to "Back to Basics" in the 90's.

The idea that the next generation is terminally disrespectful and there is moral decay is pretty continuous.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Back to basics in the 90's...really?

Height of raves at the end of 80's/early 90's followed hot on its heels by lad/ladette culture, Britpop and a continuation of rave in Ibiza and other Med destinations.

It didn't feel very "back to basics" from what I can remember [emoji23]

 

[Foley]

At the 2017 London Bridge attack, three jihadists tried to indiscriminately kill as many people as possible using knives and vehicles. Eight minutes elapsed between the first emergency call and armed officers arriving on the scene to shoot dead the perpetrators. The death toll was eight.

At the 2019 Dayton shooting, one lone nutjob tried to indiscriminately kill as many people as possible and he had a semi-automatic rifle. 32 seconds elapsed between the first shot being fired and armed officers shooting the perpetrator dead. The death toll was nine.

It's an unfortunate fact of life, that you're going to get the occasional deranged, evil psychopath. But when anyone can buy, almost unrestricted, the latest killing machine - more easily than they can buy a car - then orders of magnitude more innocents are going to continue to die in these rampages.

You're right when you say that full gun control - as we might understand it in the UK - is never going to happen in America. The second amendment, along with twisted notions of what personal freedom really means, are too deeply ingrained. As is hatred and distrust of government. But there are a million smaller common sense steps that could be taken to lessen the odds of another school mass murder happening tomorrow.

They're not going to happen though, at least on a federal level - in fact, laws might go backwards if the conservative Supreme Court rules against the state of New York's restrictive laws on the right to publicly carry later this year. And it's all because of greed and lust for power......
(although one place you won't be allowed to carry guns? The NRA convention in Houston later this week.....at least when Trump is speaking).



I am now American, but I've basically given up on the idea of a United States of America.
The federal government is impotent, so the sooner the country devolves into a loose collection of 50 independent states (as, to be honest, most of the Founding Fathers intended), and I can reside in my blue state safe in the knowledge that the laws at least somewhat align with my principles, the better.

Where do you live Tony?
Are 'moderates' concerned at the way that the US is going?
Bans on abortion, Texas making it easier to buy guns, Trump. We have our problems in the UK, but they seem dwarfed by some if what is going on in the US

 

[Eaststanding]

What’s so frustrating and bloody annoying to seemingly every right minded person apart from Americans is the suggested solution that teachers should be armed. Classic deflection, just deal with the problem, not potentially make it worse.

 

[Essexyellows]

To be sensible banning the sale of military spec assault rifles would be the first step.

You only need a handgun to defend your house and still have the right to bear arms.

Carry on selling basic rifles etc to the folk that need to shoot for food etc.

Nobody, in their right mind, needs an AR-15 semi-automatic with extra large magazines.