Home Match Day Thread 09/04/2022 L1: OUFC v Sunderland

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Some slightly curious posts on here over the weekend, and even claims of ‘meltdowns’ or ‘kneejerk reactions’.

Far from being binary, I believe the vast majority on here are pretty well aligned:
  • KR is a good guy.
  • KR has done a very good job on the pitch, playing great football that is (for the majority) enjoyable to watch.
  • KR has done a superb job off the pitch, in the community and the way in which he conducts himself on club matters. He is more than the manager of the team, he is the manager of the club and does it fantastically well.
  • KR appears to have some deficiencies as a manager. Namely a penchant for wingers (at the detriment of defensive players), he can be naïve tactically and also his use of substitutions is at best questionable.
There is more debate to be had over the players and their merits/best positions – but I imagine 80%+ on here would be aligned to the above on KR and indeed would like him to be given another season at least.

With this in mind we should still be able to question some of the footballing decisions (both from KR and from players) without it being considered in anyway reactionary.

If anyone thinks that this forum is experiencing a ‘meltdown’ you should have a look on the Sunderland or Wednesday forums. The latter conceded a late equaliser on Saturday and there is a non-ironic thread on their forum about ‘getting Moore out now’ (with the idea of someone else coming in at this stage to steer them through the play-offs) and another thread that questions the players commitment and whether they really want it (amongst others). This from one of the form sides who have just got a credible point at Bolton and look very good for the play-offs.

We, on the other hand, have had a disastrous April and some are quite rightly questioning this - only to met with the suggestion that either they are over-reacting or (even worse) that they should be content with their lot. At best this is dismissive, at worst downright insulting. This is an Oxford United supporters forum, surely it is an acceptable arena for questioning and debate?
 
Just to add fuel to the fire on OUFC apparently going backwards this season...

20/21 after 42 games:
Points: 65
Wins: 19
Defeats: 15

21/22 after 42 games:
Points: 69
Wins: 20
Defeats: 13

Is more points, more wins and less defeats backwards? If it is my definition of the word backwards has been wrong my entire life.

Our position in the table highlights how we're the victims of the most competitive League 1 season in decades, not that we've gone backwards. (Feel free to bring this up and chokeslam me with it if we fail to reach 75 points to match last seasons total 😂 )
 
Some slightly curious posts on here over the weekend, and even claims of ‘meltdowns’ or ‘kneejerk reactions’.

Far from being binary, I believe the vast majority on here are pretty well aligned:
  • KR is a good guy.
  • KR has done a very good job on the pitch, playing great football that is (for the majority) enjoyable to watch.
  • KR has done a superb job off the pitch, in the community and the way in which he conducts himself on club matters. He is more than the manager of the team, he is the manager of the club and does it fantastically well.
  • KR appears to have some deficiencies as a manager. Namely a penchant for wingers (at the detriment of defensive players), he can be naïve tactically and also his use of substitutions is at best questionable.
There is more debate to be had over the players and their merits/best positions – but I imagine 80%+ on here would be aligned to the above on KR and indeed would like him to be given another season at least.

With this in mind we should still be able to question some of the footballing decisions (both from KR and from players) without it being considered in anyway reactionary.

If anyone thinks that this forum is experiencing a ‘meltdown’ you should have a look on the Sunderland or Wednesday forums. The latter conceded a late equaliser on Saturday and there is a non-ironic thread on their forum about ‘getting Moore out now’ (with the idea of someone else coming in at this stage to steer them through the play-offs) and another thread that questions the players commitment and whether they really want it (amongst others). This from one of the form sides who have just got a credible point at Bolton and look very good for the play-offs.

We, on the other hand, have had a disastrous April and some are quite rightly questioning this - only to met with the suggestion that either they are over-reacting or (even worse) that they should be content with their lot. At best this is dismissive, at worst downright insulting. This is an Oxford United supporters forum, surely it is an acceptable arena for questioning and debate?
Sunderland forum is frankly bat s**t crazy on match days, meltdowns abounding. I don't look at it any more on match days, as it is not representative of usbmatch goers. Its great on non match days, mind. Some brilliant posters, lots from other teams and some complete bell ends to keep the balance.
 
Sunderland forum is frankly bat s**t crazy on match days, meltdowns abounding. I don't look at it any more on match days, as it is not representative of usbmatch goers. Its great on non match days, mind. Some brilliant posters, lots from other teams and some complete bell ends to keep the balance.
Lol. I look at it quite often on matchdays because the histrionics give me a giggle.
 
Some slightly curious posts on here over the weekend, and even claims of ‘meltdowns’ or ‘kneejerk reactions’.

Far from being binary, I believe the vast majority on here are pretty well aligned:
  • KR is a good guy.
  • KR has done a very good job on the pitch, playing great football that is (for the majority) enjoyable to watch.
  • KR has done a superb job off the pitch, in the community and the way in which he conducts himself on club matters. He is more than the manager of the team, he is the manager of the club and does it fantastically well.
  • KR appears to have some deficiencies as a manager. Namely a penchant for wingers (at the detriment of defensive players), he can be naïve tactically and also his use of substitutions is at best questionable.
There is more debate to be had over the players and their merits/best positions – but I imagine 80%+ on here would be aligned to the above on KR and indeed would like him to be given another season at least.

With this in mind we should still be able to question some of the footballing decisions (both from KR and from players) without it being considered in anyway reactionary.

If anyone thinks that this forum is experiencing a ‘meltdown’ you should have a look on the Sunderland or Wednesday forums. The latter conceded a late equaliser on Saturday and there is a non-ironic thread on their forum about ‘getting Moore out now’ (with the idea of someone else coming in at this stage to steer them through the play-offs) and another thread that questions the players commitment and whether they really want it (amongst others). This from one of the form sides who have just got a credible point at Bolton and look very good for the play-offs.

We, on the other hand, have had a disastrous April and some are quite rightly questioning this - only to met with the suggestion that either they are over-reacting or (even worse) that they should be content with their lot. At best this is dismissive, at worst downright insulting. This is an Oxford United supporters forum, surely it is an acceptable arena for questioning and debate?
I actually think this forum has been quite fair and level headed this week. It tends to be more hysterical after a minor setback - I remember someone saying 'KR Out!' after we could only draw with Gillingham.
 
I don't disagree. I was responding to the point that Sunderland created 4 of the 5 chances yesterday when we had a number of good chances ourselves.

The league table is a true reflection on where we are. And whilst some have "found us out" we've also done the same to many others. But there are always individual exceptions.

Although by no means certain, we could finish this season doing the double over Sheff Wed, MK Dons and taking 4 points off Rotherham. I don't think that we're better than those 3 teams but sometimes things fall your way, and sometimes they don't.

I think 'by no means certain' is doing some seriously heavy lifting here!

38% chance of beating MK Dons, 30% chance of beating Rotherham. So just an 11% chance of winning both games.
You’ve also cherry picked the only sides in the top 8 that we have beaten (or in the case of Rotherham still have a chance of beating).
By the same token I could cherry pick and exclude the winning games against the top 8 (MK Dons and Wednesday) and suggest that should we fail to beat Rotherham (a 70% chance of this) then we will have failed to win any game against 5 of the 7 sides that make up the top 8 alongside us (home or away). I could even add Ipswich into the mix and say no wins against 6 of the 8 sides that make up the top 9!
Or how about if we fail to beat MK Dons (62% chance of this) we will have won only 1 home game against the other sides from the top 8 (or 9, I could put Ipswich in again couldn't I)!

Either way, if your point is that 'sometimes things fall your way, and sometimes they don't' (i.e. we get the upper hand as much as other 'found us out') the evidence of our results against the top sides actually suggests it's a bit of a problem area for us.
 
I think 'by no means certain' is doing some seriously heavy lifting here!

38% chance of beating MK Dons, 30% chance of beating Rotherham. So just an 11% chance of winning both games.
You’ve also cherry picked the only sides in the top 8 that we have beaten (or in the case of Rotherham still have a chance of beating).
By the same token I could cherry pick and exclude the winning games against the top 8 (MK Dons and Wednesday) and suggest that should we fail to beat Rotherham (a 70% chance of this) then we will have failed to win any game against 5 of the 7 sides that make up the top 8 alongside us (home or away). I could even add Ipswich into the mix and say no wins against 6 of the 8 sides that make up the top 9!
Or how about if we fail to beat MK Dons (62% chance of this) we will have won only 1 home game against the other sides from the top 8 (or 9, I could put Ipswich in again couldn't I)!

Either way, if your point is that 'sometimes things fall your way, and sometimes they don't' (i.e. we get the upper hand as much as other 'found us out') the evidence of our results against the top sides actually suggests it's a bit of a problem area for us.
When it comes to the business end of a season, statistics and percentages are all horse s**t. You can't percentualise Trevor Carson suddenly turning into Lev Yashin, or Simon Eastwood charging out like a headless chicken, or James Henry passing and not shooting.
 
When it comes to the business end of a season, statistics and percentages are all horse s**t. You can't percentualise Trevor Carson suddenly turning into Lev Yashin, or Simon Eastwood charging out like a headless chicken, or James Henry passing and not shooting.
I like 'percentualise'!
 
The joy of football is of course that it doesn't always go to form and there are other variables.
If, for example, Norwich were playing away to Manchester City next week then of course Norwich could defend superbly for 90 minute, with a MOTM performance from their Keeper, Manchester City hitting the woodwork 14 times and having 3 players sent off for farting.
Doesn't mean I'd fancy sticking £20 on a Norwich win in advance though.
So actually when talking about what is likely to happen, it does have some merit otherwise you may as well just say 'we either make the play-offs or we don't - it's 50/50'!
 
Just to add fuel to the fire on OUFC apparently going backwards this season...

20/21 after 42 games:
Points: 65
Wins: 19
Defeats: 15

21/22 after 42 games:
Points: 69
Wins: 20
Defeats: 13

Is more points, more wins and less defeats backwards? If it is my definition of the word backwards has been wrong my entire life.

Our position in the table highlights how we're the victims of the most competitive League 1 season in decades, not that we've gone backwards. (Feel free to bring this up and chokeslam me with it if we fail to reach 75 points to match last seasons total 😂 )
I was thinking about this yesterday actually. We got 74 points in 20/21, win 2 of our last 4 and that puts us on 75 points and we'll have surpassed last season's total. Surely then, rather than regressing as most are suggesting, this would mean OUFC have actually improved their performance over the 46 games? I don't see how achieving more points can possibly be described as going backwards. Yes, it wouldn't be enough to reach the playoffs as we managed last season, but that's only because of the relative performances of others, which we can't control. Looking at OUFC in isolation, we will have done better on the pitch.

You get freakish seasons like this in football once in a while. Liverpool got 97 points in 18/19 and yet it still wasn't enough for the PL title, even though it would have been enough in 25 of the preceding 27 seasons, and in most cases would have won it by a country mile.

Of course we'll have to see how we go in our remaining games first, but it's something to ponder.
 
I was thinking about this yesterday actually. We got 74 points in 20/21, win 2 of our last 4 and that puts us on 75 points and we'll have surpassed last season's total. Surely then, rather than regressing as most are suggesting, this would mean OUFC have actually improved their performance over the 46 games? I don't see how achieving more points can possibly be described as going backwards. Yes, it wouldn't be enough to reach the playoffs as we managed last season, but that's only because of the relative performances of others, which we can't control. Looking at OUFC in isolation, we will have done better on the pitch.

You get freakish seasons like this in football once in a while. Liverpool got 97 points in 18/19 and yet it still wasn't enough for the PL title, even though it would have been enough in 25 of the preceding 27 seasons, and in most cases would have won it by a country mile.

Of course we'll have to see how we go in our remaining games first, but it's something to ponder.

Devil's advocate - are the points tallies higher this year because there are more deadwood/poor sides at the bottom? We've dropped points to plenty of them which would suggest otherwise, but is there a case to make that the likes of Crewe and Doncaster have been far worse than the bottom couple of sides in previous years? Other established League One sides such as Gillingham, Fleetwood, Wimbledon appear to have gone backwards. Other than Morecambe the promoted teams all sit comfortably in midtable, again suggesting that perhaps the bottom 6/8 sides have regressed. In 11 home games against the bottom half (with Doncaster to come) our record is W10 D1 L0. A very impressive record, but may also suggest that the bottom half is weaker than in previous years?
 
Devil's advocate - are the points tallies higher this year because there are more deadwood/poor sides at the bottom? We've dropped points to plenty of them which would suggest otherwise, but is there a case to make that the likes of Crewe and Doncaster have been far worse than the bottom couple of sides in previous years? Other established League One sides such as Gillingham, Fleetwood, Wimbledon appear to have gone backwards. Other than Morecambe the promoted teams all sit comfortably in midtable, again suggesting that perhaps the bottom 6/8 sides have regressed. In 11 home games against the bottom half (with Doncaster to come) our record is W10 D1 L0. A very impressive record, but may also suggest that the bottom half is weaker than in previous years?
Very fair points and quite possibly true.

I was by no means saying I'm happy with the outcome of our season or the way it seems to be ending. More just thinking out loud and making the point that statistically if we improve our points return year on year, is that really a backwards step? Like I said, we have to win 2 more for that to even come into consideration. With the way our April has gone to date we may well not achieve this. On the other hand, get it together and 4 wins later...
 
Very fair points and quite possibly true.

I was by no means saying I'm happy with the outcome of our season or the way it seems to be ending. More just thinking out loud and making the point that statistically if we improve our points return year on year, is that really a backwards step? Like I said, we have to win 2 more for that to even come into consideration. With the way our April has gone to date we may well not achieve this. On the other hand, get it together and 4 wins later...
I'm not sure that works, if everyone else is getting more points. Our rivals are just winning and winning in a way that's not usual most seasons.
 
So Moores headed goal wasn't a ' big chance ' but there first pinball in the box was ?
I'd imagine their second goal was classed as a big chance, being on the deck, 8 yards out and no defender in sight and it was scored. The two big chances missed I imagine would be the almost open goal early doors and the one on one Stevens saved, and ours would be Brown's header that their keeper saved.
 
When it comes to the business end of a season, statistics and percentages are all horse s**t. You can't percentualise Trevor Carson suddenly turning into Lev Yashin, or Simon Eastwood charging out like a headless chicken, or James Henry passing and not shooting.
Lev Yashin? Blimey, that was just after the war. There are not many of us remembering that comparison! Gordon Banks, maybe.
 
Lev Yashin? Blimey, that was just after the war. There are not many of us remembering that comparison! Gordon Banks, maybe.
Lev Yashin played from 1954-1970. Gordon Banks played from 1958-1973. Not much difference there.

Plus Lev Yashin isn't exactly an obscure reference, many have him down as the greatest goalkeeper of all time.
 
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