Away Match Day Thread 23/03/2021 L1 Northampton Town v OUFC

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Is that the right question? 10th in league one is about right for us in terms of size of club, but it takes a lot of work to keep us there, you can't just assume we can jog along and not be overhauled by new pretenders. It's hard to make substantive progress when you need to sell your best players every year. Where we haven't progressed is improving our recruitment process to make it less of a last minute panic every time. Where we have progressed is things like the training ground and the development of youth, which Robinson has at least had a hand in.

Pfff, well I posted the question in response to @horseman 's impassioned "Don't matter to must as we must look like Champions League contenders every week or else we're just a s**t mid table team with s**t players and manager. How dare they have a poor performance or dare lose a game of football." to try to understand (obliquely) whether his aspirations were to support an inconsistent, mid-table third division and (directly) in what ways Mr Robinson was exceeding that brief and leading the playing side upwards. Answer came there none, so far.

To your points:
The club is spending a lot more on the squad and investment than 10th place in Div 3 warrants - so @Scotchegg insists and I wouldn't dream of doubting someone with such close contacts to the club. I'd say Tiger wants his club to be up with the big(ger) boys and he's funding that. I don't get that a "lot of work" is particularly relevant - the club's not in business to dig holes using a shovel, the manager is supposed to use skill, knowledge and experience to deliver what the owners deem to be success; a side goal is what used to be called 'creating customer delight', as far as I can see he's nowhere near either of those and the first team has stagnated, no regressed, over the past 2 seasons.

Of course it's hard, but the up-and-coming teams in this division all survive by selling players. It's simply part of the job. I'll come back to the recruitment process in a minute.

You said "Where we have progressed is things like the training ground and the development of youth, which Robinson has at least had a hand in." Well, pardon my whimsy but are you saying Karl did the hard work and dug the foundations? I don't know what his role in the training ground was, nor can I see tangible benefits from it - fitter players, growing tactical acuity - what are they (realised tangible benefits) today? Whose youth have we developed? Barely ours: Stevens grudgingly admitted to the regular position, Baptiste - who else has emerged from the academy during Karl's tenure and is a regular in the squad or has been sold for profit? I don't think Tiger's spent a small fortune on facilities so we can be a feeder team for Oxford City.

If you think of OUFC as a start-up business (or a re-boot, which is more the case) it seems to me there's one manager who's not delivering (could be more, I don't know) the results the club needs to progress and become a more or less self-funding minor footballing power. Maybe he should be better than the average manager at this level - you usually need to be better than your rivals to win things.

Case rests, yer honour.
 
Almost 24 hours on and I still can’t believe how poor we were ...... in every department
 
Northampton beat Portsmouth 4-1 about a week ago and also drew 0-0 away at Doncaster before their last games.
 
Pfff, well I posted the question in response to @horseman 's impassioned "Don't matter to must as we must look like Champions League contenders every week or else we're just a s**t mid table team with s**t players and manager. How dare they have a poor performance or dare lose a game of football." to try to understand (obliquely) whether his aspirations were to support an inconsistent, mid-table third division and (directly) in what ways Mr Robinson was exceeding that brief and leading the playing side upwards. Answer came there none, so far.

To your points:
The club is spending a lot more on the squad and investment than 10th place in Div 3 warrants - so @Scotchegg insists and I wouldn't dream of doubting someone with such close contacts to the club. I'd say Tiger wants his club to be up with the big(ger) boys and he's funding that. I don't get that a "lot of work" is particularly relevant - the club's not in business to dig holes using a shovel, the manager is supposed to use skill, knowledge and experience to deliver what the owners deem to be success; a side goal is what used to be called 'creating customer delight', as far as I can see he's nowhere near either of those and the first team has stagnated, no regressed, over the past 2 seasons.

Of course it's hard, but the up-and-coming teams in this division all survive by selling players. It's simply part of the job. I'll come back to the recruitment process in a minute.

You said "Where we have progressed is things like the training ground and the development of youth, which Robinson has at least had a hand in." Well, pardon my whimsy but are you saying Karl did the hard work and dug the foundations? I don't know what his role in the training ground was, nor can I see tangible benefits from it - fitter players, growing tactical acuity - what are they (realised tangible benefits) today? Whose youth have we developed? Barely ours: Stevens grudgingly admitted to the regular position, Baptiste - who else has emerged from the academy during Karl's tenure and is a regular in the squad or has been sold for profit? I don't think Tiger's spent a small fortune on facilities so we can be a feeder team for Oxford City.

If you think of OUFC as a start-up business (or a re-boot, which is more the case) it seems to me there's one manager who's not delivering (could be more, I don't know) the results the club needs to progress and become a more or less self-funding minor footballing power. Maybe he should be better than the average manager at this level - you usually need to be better than your rivals to win things.

Case rests, yer honour.
The board are under financing, the manager is underperforming or we have reached our ceiling.

Discuss.
 
The board are under financing, the manager is underperforming or we have reached our ceiling.

Discuss.
The benefits of the youth programme won't be seen for a year or two, apparently. I don't think that anyone can know just what our budget is - and half of it is always being spent on players who are never fit. I'd say that staying in the job for three years and keeping us in a decent position while generally playing good football is a reasonable achievement. To move to the next level would either need quite a lot more money or an outstanding manager (or one on a hot streak).
 
So where do we think we are budget wise this season in Div 1? I’m assuming we’re not top 6.

Where are we 7th - 8th, 9th to 12th, 13th - 16th? Any sensible thoughts?!
 
I don't think that anyone can know just what our budget is
Budget in 16/17 under Appleton was 3.3m. Went up to around 4m under Clotet in 17/18. Back down a touch to around 3.6m in 18/19. It’s been above that in both 19/20 and 20/21. This season we are around 8th in the spending overall.

Bright but cloudy tomorrow. Highs of around 13C.
 
Teams with worse players consistently win promotion because they play as a team and have a consistent game plan that everyone understands and can execute. Wycombe are the case in point.

Ah...but look where Wycombe are now, I hear you say.

Yes - they are in a division above us, and are set for the next several years in L1 when they are relegated to seriously challenge in the top half following their championship payday. Contiune that yo-yo between L1 and the Championship could prove pretty lucrative for a club with limited ambition.

I think we would do well on concentrating on putting together a team and squad that has what it takes to get out of this division first before worrying about what we want to do next - leave that to the ambition of the board/owners.
Promotion to the Championship is worth c £8M in TV money. Worth getting promoted and then relegated for the pay day. Unfortunately this side is not as good as last season or the season before and not good enough to finish top 6.
 
Promotion to the Championship is worth c £8M in TV money. Worth getting promoted and then relegated for the pay day. Unfortunately this side is not as good as last season or the season before and not good enough to finish top 6.
This is why Im not bothered about us getting the play-offs, if we fluked it into 6th place we'd get battered
 
This is why Im not bothered about us getting the play-offs, if we fluked it into 6th place we'd get battered
I never understand when fans don’t want us to make certain stages for fear of what might happen e.g. don’t want us to get promoted because we’ll just come straight back down or don’t want to make the plays offs because we might get stuffed.

Even worse, it would be good if we got relegated so we can rebuild and come back stronger! I remember fans saying this in the 2000/01 season when we were in the now named Championship. Funny that we’ve never aspired to that level since (20+ years) and actually got relegated again a couple of seasons later to the now named Division Two and even worse in 2006 to The Conference!

You might as well say, I don’t want to do well in the cups for the fear of being beaten by a premier team
 
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In fact take Portsmouth as an example.
The last few years they have been in the Playoffs and not got any further
Their board have had enough,
How long will our new board wait?
 
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