Home Match Day Thread 27/11/2021 L1: OUFC v Rotherham United

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What I noticed with Hanson on Saturday was how much room he was giving the winger to get his crosses in. He needed to be much closer to stop the crosses coming in the first place. The header that hit the post came from a left wing cross that really should have been stopped. There were 2 or 3 others as well. But overall, I think he did a reasonable job.
Common theme amongst all our full-backs under KR, we play so narrow defensively, especially when the opposition turns the ball over and counters. There must be some logic behind it, but it does generally allow crosses to come in.

I thought Hanson was solid enough, a couple of driving runs forward which really took me by surprise as I'd not seen that from him before, either with us or at Derby where I saw him play a few times. Not a long term full-back for us though we have known for a while. The fact he has played a couple of games might make him more desirable for another side in January though if we were to bring in other reinforcements that would limit his gametime further with the covid players back.
 
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Fair.

But two most important positions on the field are gk (we are very lucky here) and striker. In the latter it’s a false assurance to suggest we gave cover. Because strikers who don’t score goals aren’t really strikers, more so with only one up top.

Full backs are the least important positions in the field and can be covered far more easily by stand ins. So on a purist level youre correct we have less cover but risk based is be more concerned about striker.

If Hanson and Forde can get away playing there against top teams without us being annihilated then it’s not a priority

So when we're talking about bringing a new striker in, what exactly is realistic here?

I mean it would be awesome to have a second Matty Taylor.....a proven League One scorer at their peak that we can rotate in and out with him to KR's heart's content. But, realistically, that sort of player is a) going to be insanely expensive in January when the market is at its most competitive and b) is that player really going to want to come here when they know they're going to be (to use baseball terminology) the minor half of a striking platoon? Barring a Matty T injury, coming on in the second half of big games and getting the occasionally Tuesday night start?

For me, realistically (and within a sensible budget) - the sort of striker we're likely to bring in is either a Premiership youngster that's looking to prove themselves, or an experienced lower league goalscorer that's done it before but is currently a bit down on their luck and/or in a bad situation. In other words, it's either a Sept 2019 Dan Agyei or a Sept 2020 Sam Winnall (or we could go through a depressingly long laundry list of strikers we've brought in over the past twenty years that we thought might be good, but turned out to be somewhere between mediocre and Steve Anthrobus)

I'm certainly not saying that we shouldn't bring in a new striker in January - we should - I'm just saying that the sort of player we can likely afford and recruit up front to back up Matty Taylor is going to be a high risk proposition.

Whereas at full back......while I'm not going to argue that it's a less critical position, I think there's also likely to be a much longer list of good, solid lower division pros that are available, cheap and an almost guaranteed upgrade on Hanson, Forde or the frantic rearrangement that would have to follow if Seddon got injured. Lower reward, maybe, but much lower risk. And also wholly necessary.


(as an aside, I also disagree and think that central midfield is the most important outfield position on the pitch! But thankfully we are sufficiently blessed that we don't have to worry about that in January......as long as Herbie Kane doesn't get recalled......)
 
The striker I would like to see us sign would be Ellis Simms, made 21 appearances for Blackpool last season scoring 8 goals. I would like to think that we would create a lot more for him. Gave us problems in the playoffs, a real handful. A decent finisher, but different to what Taylor has to offer, big, strong and pacey.

If the board are really serious about getting into the Championship, why not make a permenant bid for him.

If Carlsberg did January transfers for a decent league one club, the signings would be Ellis Simms (Striker), Nicky Cadden and Herbie Kane on permenant deals, paying off or loaning out Winnall, Hanson and regretably Agyei, freeing up a little space in the squad for the return of Marcus Browne.
 
We also have Forde and Williams but we don’t have a no 3 back uo which is a more a priority than a university number 2.

A university number 2, the s**t you have after a bad over priced meal, seems to take 3 years and you are are skint after?
 
The striker I would like to see us sign would be Ellis Simms, made 21 appearances for Blackpool last season scoring 8 goals. I would like to think that we would create a lot more for him. Gave us problems in the playoffs, a real handful. A decent finisher, but different to what Taylor has to offer, big, strong and pacey.

If the board are really serious about getting into the Championship, why not make a permenant bid for him.

If Carlsberg did January transfers for a decent league one club, the signings would be Ellis Simms (Striker), Nicky Cadden and Herbie Kane on permenant deals, paying off or loaning out Winnall, Hanson and regretably Agyei, freeing up a little space in the squad for the return of Marcus Browne.

Signed a new 3 year deal with Everton two weeks ago and travelled with the first team to Brentford at the weekend so a permanent deal isn't happening.
A loan could be doable as he has been injured all season, and they might want to get him up and running again for next season. Though with Calvert-Lewin still injured, they might intend keeping him around or would rather seem him in the Championship.
 
So when we're talking about bringing a new striker in, what exactly is realistic here?

I mean it would be awesome to have a second Matty Taylor.....a proven League One scorer at their peak that we can rotate in and out with him to KR's heart's content. But, realistically, that sort of player is a) going to be insanely expensive in January when the market is at its most competitive and b) is that player really going to want to come here when they know they're going to be (to use baseball terminology) the minor half of a striking platoon? Barring a Matty T injury, coming on in the second half of big games and getting the occasionally Tuesday night start?

For me, realistically (and within a sensible budget) - the sort of striker we're likely to bring in is either a Premiership youngster that's looking to prove themselves, or an experienced lower league goalscorer that's done it before but is currently a bit down on their luck and/or in a bad situation. In other words, it's either a Sept 2019 Dan Agyei or a Sept 2020 Sam Winnall (or we could go through a depressingly long laundry list of strikers we've brought in over the past twenty years that we thought might be good, but turned out to be somewhere between mediocre and Steve Anthrobus)

I'm certainly not saying that we shouldn't bring in a new striker in January - we should - I'm just saying that the sort of player we can likely afford and recruit up front to back up Matty Taylor is going to be a high risk proposition.

Whereas at full back......while I'm not going to argue that it's a less critical position, I think there's also likely to be a much longer list of good, solid lower division pros that are available, cheap and an almost guaranteed upgrade on Hanson, Forde or the frantic rearrangement that would have to follow if Seddon got injured. Lower reward, maybe, but much lower risk. And also wholly necessary.


(as an aside, I also disagree and think that central midfield is the most important outfield position on the pitch! But thankfully we are sufficiently blessed that we don't have to worry about that in January......as long as Herbie Kane doesn't get recalled......)
We are ambitious.

We can Potentially offload A number of superfluous squad players …..Cooper / Bodin / Hanson / Agyei / Winnall

And get in a striker better than Taylor to create competition like we have on the wings . Let’s think big TW

And a multipurpose full back .

I think your outlook is based not on need but efficiencies and economies of scale but I find it overly pragmatic and cautious
 
The striker I would like to see us sign would be Ellis Simms, made 21 appearances for Blackpool last season scoring 8 goals. I would like to think that we would create a lot more for him. Gave us problems in the playoffs, a real handful. A decent finisher, but different to what Taylor has to offer, big, strong and pacey.

If the board are really serious about getting into the Championship, why not make a permenant bid for him.

If Carlsberg did January transfers for a decent league one club, the signings would be Ellis Simms (Striker), Nicky Cadden and Herbie Kane on permenant deals, paying off or loaning out Winnall, Hanson and regretably Agyei, freeing up a little space in the squad for the return of Marcus Browne.

As much as I and most would love to see him here I think a permanent position would be financially well out of our league.
 
We are ambitious.

We can Potentially offload A number of superfluous squad players …..Cooper / Bodin / Hanson / Agyei / Winnall

And get in a striker better than Taylor to create competition like we have on the wings . Let’s think big TW

And a multipurpose full back .

I think your outlook is based not on need but efficiencies and economies of scale but I find it overly pragmatic and cautious

Now you may think that your last sentence is a criticism, but I view being called overly pragmatic as a big compliment!

To get a striker in January that we can be confident is better than Matty Taylor, then we're definitely talking a seven figure fee. A couple of years ago, Will Grigg cost Sunderland three million in this window. So we'd be talking about at least doubling our club record fee (which is think was ~650k for Marvin Johnson).....maybe a lot more than that.

Honestly, that would make me really uncomfortable.
If our owners were going to donate us that cash, then great. But I've not heard anything yet to suggest that they're that type of crazy benefactor. They may be willing to loan us that sort of cash, and then we can see our debt balloon even more than it's already going to this season. And promotion to the Championship won't fix that.....not if we want to actually compete at that level anyways.
 
Now you may think that your last sentence is a criticism, but I view being called overly pragmatic as a big compliment!

To get a striker in January that we can be confident is better than Matty Taylor, then we're definitely talking a seven figure fee. A couple of years ago, Will Grigg cost Sunderland three million in this window. So we'd be talking about at least doubling our club record fee (which is think was ~650k for Marvin Johnson).....maybe a lot more than that.

Honestly, that would make me really uncomfortable.
If our owners were going to donate us that cash, then great. But I've not heard anything yet to suggest that they're that type of crazy benefactor. They may be willing to loan us that sort of cash, and then we can see our debt balloon even more than it's already going to this season. And promotion to the Championship won't fix that.....not if we want to actually compete at that level anyways.
It was a million and a bit with add ons going up to 4 million
 
We are ambitious.

We can Potentially offload A number of superfluous squad players …..Cooper / Bodin / Hanson / Agyei / Winnall

And get in a striker better than Taylor to create competition like we have on the wings . Let’s think big TW
Not sure that we will get a striker anywhere near as good as Matt Taylor.
Trying to get somebody as good as Simms ( a gamble) is probably a good option.
Marcus Browne is another option ( if he stays fit he has been very good through the middle or wide)
 
How did we get Matty Taylor..but now the idea of getting similar quality ever again is impossible?

I’m not buying that. We may as well go home.

As for overly pragmatic ….overly pragmatic in my mind is when you operate from principles of fear and are overly moderated that you mannaclr your opportunity for progress.

Lose a fb we still get promoted
Lose a Matty Taylor and we don’t
 
How did we get Matty Taylor..but now the idea of getting similar quality ever again is impossible?

I’m not buying that. We may as well go home.

As for overly pragmatic ….overly pragmatic in my mind is when you operate from principles of fear and are overly moderated that you mannaclr your opportunity for progress.

Lose a fb we still get promoted
Lose a Matty Taylor and we don’t

1) I'd argue that there's a big difference between looking for new signing in mid-August vs. mid-January.
The late summer is a buyer's market.....players are starting to panic when they can't find a club at the level they want; Championship clubs are starting to realize that certain good players aren't actually going to be part of their plans for the season after all. And everyone is in the same boat when it comes to match fitness.
Not so much in January. Then there are only three types of player - those that have not been playing, those that have been playing crap and those that have been playing great. Pot #1 are a risk, Pot #2 you obviously want to stay clear of and Pot #3 are going to cost a pretty penny.

I think we should be shopping in Pot #1 in January. And it might work out great, but there's certainly no guarantees that we're going to be able to find anyone comparable to Matty T. In January, for every Brandon Barker, there's an Isaac Buckley-Ricketts; for every Rob Dickie, there's a Joe Grayson


2) I've said it before on here, but I really genuinely am happy watching Oxford compete, as we have done the past three years, near the top of League One. To the extent that I don't think that increasing our odds of promotion to the Championship another 10-20% is worth saddling the club with an extra million or two of debt


3) If we don't bring in any full back cover, and Steve Seddon goes down with a six month injury, I don't think we get promoted. If Steve Seddon and any other front-line defender (so Moore, Thornily, McNally or Long) goes down long term, I would guarantee we don't.
 
Look at a couple of our targets from the summer and those mentioned in line with @tonyw pot system.

Pot 1

James Norwood has barely played for Ipswich this season and after 2 hamstring injuries last season there may be concerns about his on going fitness. He is training with the kids, has had a troubled few months off the pitch with a shitty attitude too. He is a natural goal scorer but will need to get match fitness and give his head a wobbly or it could be a huge gamble.

Pot 2

Ellis Harrison has been in and out of a fairly average Portsmouth side, and aside from a hatrick in the Papa John has one assist and no goals from the 10 other games. His stock is lower, but Pompey are unlikely to want to sell to a rival and Harrison may want to wait until the summer when he can get a better deal when out of contract.

Pot 3

Nicky Cadden has scored 5, assisted 4 and playing well in a team that is sat 6 points clear at the top of league 2. His stock is high, Forest Green won't be keen to sell and he's not going to be pushing to move. He is out of contract in the summer so we have a choice of paying well over the odds now, or gamble on getting him for nothing in the summer.

All of these have their own issues, and I'm not sure it's as easy as just throwing money at this or bringing in and moving out several players.

Back up left back who can cover across the defence, young PL striker on loan, a signing for the future like Atkinson/McNally and maybe one wildcard like Marcus Browne and I think we'll be done.
 
Mentioned it before and will do again - Tyler Walker. Few minutes for Coventry this season, Gyokeres/Waghorn/Godden all with more minutes. He has a great record in League One and League Two, a decent age and at a club we probably aren't a million miles away from in terms of wages.

Also Luke Bolton. Currently in the Man City U23s after loans in the Championship and Scotland...has played RB and on the wing, typical KR winger. Contract up in the summer IIRC.

Still think we will be going for Cadden - was told it was all done in a previous window so not sure what happened. See if it materialises again. Certainly fits the bill as a left sided winger that can play wing back along with being cross heavy.

A few other left-field names of Georgie Kelly and Kyle Wootton.
 
Mentioned it before and will do again - Tyler Walker. Few minutes for Coventry this season, Gyokeres/Waghorn/Godden all with more minutes. He has a great record in League One and League Two, a decent age and at a club we probably aren't a million miles away from in terms of wages.

Also Luke Bolton. Currently in the Man City U23s after loans in the Championship and Scotland...has played RB and on the wing, typical KR winger. Contract up in the summer IIRC.

Still think we will be going for Cadden - was told it was all done in a previous window so not sure what happened. See if it materialises again. Certainly fits the bill as a left sided winger that can play wing back along with being cross heavy.

A few other left-field names of Georgie Kelly and Kyle Wootton.
We don’t need a right back/winger. Cadden yes if we can but doubtful
 
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