50% capacity

[unification]

Yeah, I don't disagree with your position on this at all. I think it's time to scale restrictions right back and open things up.

I just wanted to point out that COVID has been a serious thing and I don't think retrospective trivialisation is helpful. I'm not in any way accusing you of doing this.

I'll try to do as @Scotchegg says and be compassionate to those who stil have anxieties and concerns, and if some places still want me to wear a mask I will, it's really not that great a hardship for me.

Good post.

We cannot keep delaying the easing of restrictions especially when deaths and hospitalisations are staying at a steady level (that was one of the many reasons for the previous lockdowns in the first place). There is some scientific logic behind lifting restrictions now in the summer too to ride out the next spike now rather than in the winter months. That certainly seemed the view of Chris Whitty.

However it isn’t the view of all scientists and even the most ardent of lockdown easing proponents should admit that there is a degree of risk to this. The delta variant is on the rise and more young people are catching COVID. A recent Israeli study suggested that the Pfizer vaccine may not be as effective against it which may suggest boosters will be due at some point.

So, like many, I’m happy to see restrictions lift but I’m still approaching life with a degree of caution. I’ll continue to wear a mask in public for inside places for example. The triumphalism from the Daily Mail and Telegraph regarding the 19 July as ‘freedom day’ is slightly pathetic. I fear they are creating a sneery attitude against those who continue to exercise caution. We should be understanding that people feel very differently about this and not everybody wants to see all the restrictions lifted as quickly as they do.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Good post.

We cannot keep delaying the easing of restrictions especially when deaths and hospitalisations are staying at a steady level (that was one of the many reasons for the previous lockdowns in the first place). There is some scientific logic behind lifting restrictions now in the summer too to ride out the next spike now rather than in the winter months. That certainly seemed the view of Chris Whitty.

However it isn’t the view of all scientists and even the most ardent of lockdown easing proponents should admit that there is a degree of risk to this. The delta variant is on the rise and more young people are catching COVID. A recent Israeli study suggested that the Pfizer vaccine may not be as effective against it which may suggest boosters will be due at some point.

So, like many, I’m happy to see restrictions lift but I’m still approaching life with a degree of caution. I’ll continue to wear a mask in public for inside places for example. The triumphalism from the Daily Mail and Telegraph regarding the 19 July as ‘freedom day’ is slightly pathetic. I fear they are creating a sneery attitude against those who continue to exercise caution. We should be understanding that people feel very differently about this and not everybody I want to see all the restrictions are lifted as quickly as they do.

The attitude that is most unhelpful is the big, tough macho act of some posters here - I want to go to the pub / away game, if you’re scared then hide away. It’s not a question of being scared for oneself but of being concerned for others. Even the big tough old boys on here presumably have loved ones or family members that are at risk of long Covid (ie particularly women), while we are all at risk from new variants.

However Chris Whitty has approved the relaxation, which is good as long as he wasn’t blackmailed or drugged.

 

[Jolteon]

Personally I think we're going about this all wrong. I understand that things NEED to start opening somewhat because the economy IS suffering - but to look at the rate of infections and go "f**k it, freedom!" is completely bonkers because, unfortunately, a lot of people in this country have already shown they can't exercise common sense and it WILL cause another spike in infections which, although much less deadly now than last year, is going to kill off some poor b****r's nan. I appreciate most if not all people here probably aren't idiots, but the scenes last year of people packing out the beaches whilst Covid was at its peak... I lived in Cardiff bay last summer, and there were frequent mass gatherings around the corner from my home, and no surprise I got Covid and as a mostly healthy 25 year old (overweight but otherwise no issues) it completely floored me for 2 weeks, and I am still suffering the effects of the so called long Covid to this day over a year later. Covid is NOT just the flu, it f*****g sucks and just because death rates are down doesn't mean we should be blindly running to freedom.

The scariest bit was Boris saying "we must reconcile ourselves to more deaths from Covid". He KNOWS that completely dropping the restrictions is going to kill people, but he cares more about the "FREEDOM DAY" point scoring than the lives of the people he is tasked to help and protect.

I will still be wearing masks indoors in public spaces and I will always look to protect other people as best as I can. Restrictions may be lifting earlier/quicker than I'd like, but I can still do my bit to help try and curb the inevitable. I hope you'll all be doing the same too however you can.

 

[WuTang]

For those worried about returning to the football, OUFC will be selling surplus masks outside the quadrangle...

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Good post.

We cannot keep delaying the easing of restrictions especially when deaths and hospitalisations are staying at a steady level (that was one of the many reasons for the previous lockdowns in the first place). There is some scientific logic behind lifting restrictions now in the summer too to ride out the next spike now rather than in the winter months. That certainly seemed the view of Chris Whitty.

However it isn’t the view of all scientists and even the most ardent of lockdown easing proponents should admit that there is a degree of risk to this. The delta variant is on the rise and more young people are catching COVID. A recent Israeli study suggested that the Pfizer vaccine may not be as effective against it which may suggest boosters will be due at some point.

So, like many, I’m happy to see restrictions lift but I’m still approaching life with a degree of caution. I’ll continue to wear a mask in public for inside places for example. The triumphalism from the Daily Mail and Telegraph regarding the 19 July as ‘freedom day’ is slightly pathetic. I fear they are creating a sneery attitude against those who continue to exercise caution. We should be understanding that people feel very differently about this and not everybody wants to see all the restrictions lifted as quickly as they do.

I don’t see ‘triumphalism’ being endemic in the media. At all.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Off topic but the BBC news coverage last night was generally drippy, unbalanced and lazy. (The only decent reporter they have on the topic is Fergal Walsh.)


Too many doctors, not enough other commentators

I’m delighted to see the restrictions go, respect those that think differently, and look forward to seeing as many of my old gimmer mates as possible who can bear to take the risk of watching outdoor sport see us at last get promoted to the Championship this season.

Last time we sat in our regular seats was February 28th 2020. With Matty Taylor poaching a late winner in a ropey old game.

There will have been almost an 18 months gap.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Off topic but the BBC news coverage last night was generally drippy, unbalanced and lazy. (The only decent reporter they have on the topic is Fergal Walsh.)


Too many doctors, not enough other commentators

I’m delighted to see the restrictions go, respect those that think differently, and look forward to seeing as many of my old gimmer mates as possible who can bear to take the risk of watching outdoor sport see us at last get promoted to the Championship this season.

Last time we sat in our regular seats was February 28th 2020. With Matty Taylor poaching a late winner in a ropey old game.

There will have been almost an 18 months gap.

Oh I'm looking forward to going back to the football! I just think keeping masks in shops and on public transport would be a good message to stress that we aren't out of the woods

 

[Oxymoron]

Undoubtedly, the situation is much, much better than where we were six months ago and, yes absolutely, it is time to start "getting back to normal" and relaxing the constraints which have been imposed upon the public, but to dismantle everything in one fell swoop does seem a little cavalier.

Mass gatherings obviously have the biggest potential to become the so-called "superspreader" events and even though the recent trials have shown that transmission at venues which have had large crowds has been minimal, it much be remembered that these were very strictly policed - there is to be no such requirement after 19th July.

If, God forbid, we find that the NHS is put back into a situation where it is having to cope with excessive Covid patients, what measures will then be reintroduced? By sweeping away all the restrictions in one hit, you cannot tell which one's were still effective in limiting the spread and which one's were no longer required.

I think Boris has yet again gone for the popular option, rather than adopting the logical approach of allowing smaller gatherings to be fully opened and the consequences of that act observed.

Everyone over 18 will have been offered a "double jab" by September - just a few more weeks to ensure everything is as safe as it could be is not too much to ask....

 

[Foley]

The scariest bit was Boris saying "we must reconcile ourselves to more deaths from Covid".

Surely this is simply a fact of life going forwards?
Assuming that we open up one day there WILL be deaths from COVID even with vaccines. So anybody who ever opens up could be charged with this.
The question I think is whether we should open up now or probably next year.
Unfortunately at some stage there would always have had to have been a calculation of whether the risk is worthwhile, but regardless of this there Unfortunately there will be deaths probably every year for ever.

 

[Jolteon]

Surely this is simply a fact of life going forwards?
Assuming that we open up one day there WILL be deaths from COVID even with vaccines. So anybody who ever opens up could be charged with this.
The question I think is whether we should open up now or probably next year.
Unfortunately at some stage there would always have had to have been a calculation of whether the risk is worthwhile, but regardless of this there Unfortunately there will be deaths probably every year for ever.

To an extent, yeah, I think we're living with Covid for the forseeable future. It was more the casual nature of "hey, people gonna die we just gotta deal with it" when cases are growing so rapidly and not everyone is vaccinated fully. The current pathing everyone who wants to be should be double jabbed by end of September, is it really going to cause so much irreparable damage to the economy to just chill a few more months? He predicts 50k infections if we open everything up, a perfect breeding ground for new variants. The cavalier attitude towards opening, coupled with the casual response towards people dying is what's so scary to me. Personally I would have kept it as is until October time but maybe my understanding of the depths of the economy isn't accurate.

 

[Marked Ox]

Surely this is simply a fact of life going forwards?
Assuming that we open up one day there WILL be deaths from COVID even with vaccines. So anybody who ever opens up could be charged with this.
The question I think is whether we should open up now or probably next year.
Unfortunately at some stage there would always have had to have been a calculation of whether the risk is worthwhile, but regardless of this there Unfortunately there will be deaths probably every year for ever.

The issue for me isn't that we are opening up I agree with that, it is the getting rid of all measures in 1 go or leaving some pretty basic (and hardly onerous like wearing a mask in busy, inside public places) to personal choice on "Freedom Day". It gives the impression it is all over* when we don't know if it is.

*Sajid Javid's own comments included.

 

[m]

To an extent, yeah, I think we're living with Covid for the forseeable future. It was more the casual nature of "hey, people gonna die we just gotta deal with it" when cases are growing so rapidly and not everyone is vaccinated fully. The current pathing everyone who wants to be should be double jabbed by end of September, is it really going to cause so much irreparable damage to the economy to just chill a few more months? He predicts 50k infections if we open everything up, a perfect breeding ground for new variants. The cavalier attitude towards opening, coupled with the casual response towards people dying is what's so scary to me. Personally I would have kept it as is until October time but maybe my understanding of the depths of the economy isn't accurate.

I don't think it's a casual response to people dying as much as a grim and stoic acceptance of it.

 

[Hackney Jack]

So with the new announcement, do we think away fans will be allowed at Cambridge?

 

[werthersoriginal]

I don't think it's a casual response to people dying as much as a grim and stoic acceptance of it.

It tends to be a grim and stoic acceptance of *other people* dying, from people who feel superior and impervious.

 

[Tomox]

Oh I'm looking forward to going back to the football! I just think keeping masks in shops and on public transport would be a good message to stress that we aren't out of the woods

What does constitute being 'out of the woods'?

 

[Essexyellows]

Personally I think we're going about this all wrong. I understand that things NEED to start opening somewhat because the economy IS suffering - but to look at the rate of infections and go "f**k it, freedom!" is completely bonkers because, unfortunately, a lot of people in this country have already shown they can't exercise common sense and it WILL cause another spike in infections which, although much less deadly now than last year, is going to kill off some poor b****r's nan. I appreciate most if not all people here probably aren't idiots, but the scenes last year of people packing out the beaches whilst Covid was at its peak... I lived in Cardiff bay last summer, and there were frequent mass gatherings around the corner from my home, and no surprise I got Covid and as a mostly healthy 25 year old (overweight but otherwise no issues) it completely floored me for 2 weeks, and I am still suffering the effects of the so called long Covid to this day over a year later. Covid is NOT just the flu, it f*****g sucks and just because death rates are down doesn't mean we should be blindly running to freedom.

The scariest bit was Boris saying "we must reconcile ourselves to more deaths from Covid". He KNOWS that completely dropping the restrictions is going to kill people, but he cares more about the "FREEDOM DAY" point scoring than the lives of the people he is tasked to help and protect.

I will still be wearing masks indoors in public spaces and I will always look to protect other people as best as I can. Restrictions may be lifting earlier/quicker than I'd like, but I can still do my bit to help try and curb the inevitable. I hope you'll all be doing the same too however you can.

The highlighted part is what HMG is hoping for, and that we don`t all go for a mad party and just ease slowly back into life and buy more time.

The alternative is equally unpalatable ..... on & off lockdowns/restrictions that people give up on.

 

[Jolteon]

The highlighted part is what HMG is hoping for, and that we don`t all go for a mad party and just ease slowly back into life and buy more time.

The alternative is equally unpalatable ..... on & off lockdowns/restrictions that people give up on.

If there was a 100% guarantee this would happen I'd be much more supportive. Unfortunately if the last 18 months have shown me anything it's that there is a not insignificant portion of the UK who are self-centred dumbasses that will act like "freedom day" is equivalent to Independence Day in the US and use it as an excuse to get hammered and party like it's 1999. I REALLY want us to go back to "normal". I don't remotely trust the public to do it sensibly.

(Again, not pointing fingers at anyone here, just general observations based on experience)

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Unfortunately, I think the chances of many people *not* going completely apesh!t on the 19th is 0%.

I really do think they ought to have opened up (they had to) but with some minor restrictions in place - masks on public transport and in shops, limited numbers at indoor venues (unfortunately), social distancing still being a 'thing' wherever possible. Wearing a mask if you have a sniffle should become a polite thing to do and will help with more than just this particular disease. Once cases start going down, increase the number of people allowed in indoor venues as soon as possible.

I can see infection numbers going sky high and hospitals being put under extreme pressure - I know a smaller proportion of people are being hospitalised, but a small proportion of a large number could well be significant.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

The attitude that is most unhelpful is the big, tough macho act of some posters here - I want to go to the pub / away game, if you’re scared then hide away. It’s not a question of being scared for oneself but of being concerned for others. Even the big tough old boys on here presumably have loved ones or family members that are at risk of long Covid (ie particularly women), while we are all at risk from new variants.

There is a new wave of tribalism coming between those who are cautious / concerned and those who want to go bananas. Keep an eye out for news stories of people being robbed of their masks by idiots who demand that they stop wearing them, or people who are rounded on by thugs purely because they’re wearing one. We only know tribalism in this country now - this is going to be our next divide. You’ve noticed the first signs of it creeping in already on a L1 football forum. It’ll spread.

If the pandemic had kicked off a couple of months earlier, and all willing adults were going to be double jabbed by next week rather than in September on current speed / estimates, I think we would still be ‘unlocking’ at the same moment. I don’t think we would have already done what we’re doing on the 19th two months ago - I am convinced that the timeline is designed for people to have their ‘Great British Summer’ so that they feel good and start clapping. School holidays, festivals, football season… I believe it’s geared towards these things first and foremost.

We have to live with this, of course we do, but the logical choice was always (and this has been said numerous times before now) to wait until second jabs are done. We are around 8/9 weeks from that, roughly, but it doesn’t fit the calendar so we won’t be doing it. My second jab is on August 13, and given it takes 2/3 weeks to properly kick in I won’t even be considering ‘normal’ life until September. At least it gives me lots of time to observe.

 

[Tomox]

There is a new wave of tribalism coming between those who are cautious / concerned and those who want to go bananas. Keep an eye out for news stories of people being robbed of their masks by idiots who demand that they stop wearing them, or people who are rounded on by thugs purely because they’re wearing one. We only know tribalism in this country now - this is going to be our next divide. You’ve noticed the first signs of it creeping in already on a L1 football forum. It’ll spread.

If the pandemic had kicked off a couple of months earlier, and all willing adults were going to be double jabbed by next week rather than in September on current speed / estimates, I think we would still be ‘unlocking’ at the same moment. I don’t think we would have already done what we’re doing on the 19th two months ago - I am convinced that the timeline is designed for people to have their ‘Great British Summer’ so that they feel good and start clapping. School holidays, festivals, football season… I believe it’s geared towards these things first and foremost.

We have to live with this, of course we do, but the logical choice was always (and this has been said numerous times before now) to wait until second jabs are done. We are around 8/9 weeks from that, roughly, but it doesn’t fit the calendar so we won’t be doing it. My second jab is on August 13, and given it takes 2/3 weeks to properly kick in I won’t even be considering ‘normal’ life until September. At least it gives me lots of time to observe.

Is that for vulnerable people or for everyone? (I'm not trying to be pedantic I just wanted to understand the points being made).