National News David Amess MP murdered

[Junior_1]

Nice positive words, sadly very unlikely to practically prevent such attacks.

In the 12 months to March 2021 there are 44,285 police reports of knife/sharp object crime. 221 murders and 23 dead children (under 17).

Society needs to increase the deterrent to make carrying and using a knife life-changing for the perpetrators.

Until that happens words, however well-intended, will be ineffective.

Maybe stop and search method will help.

Can’t see anybody being against that. Oh. Hang on, isn’t that already massively against in London??

 

[bazzer9461]

Been doing the garden most of this afternoon checked the phone to see someone had been stabbed multiple times but nothing further until later when it was announced Sir David Amess had died. By all accounts he was a fine gentleman and a fine MP who worked for everyone no matter what ethnic background or political allegiance they were. To have 2 MP’s murdered in the last 5 years is tragic and unnecessary.
What do we do to protect society from this type of violence? It’s a problem that is going to be very difficult to resolve.

 

[bazzer9461]

Maybe stop and search method will help.

Can’t see anybody being against that. Oh. Hang on, isn’t that already massively against in London??

And it proved that when stop and search was halted knife crime went up. Sri and search has to be rolled out to all parts of the U.K. it maybe unpopular but if it means you can return home from a night out surely that’s a plus.

 

[Junior_1]

And it proved that when stop and search was halted knife crime went up. Sri and search has to be rolled out to all parts of the U.K. it maybe unpopular but if it means you can return home from a night out surely that’s a plus.

Better tell a certain London mayor that and members of the Labour Party.

Stop and search works.

End of.

Also. Carry a knife, get caught. Custodial sentence awaits.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Terrible news, as others have said, nobody should go to work and not come home.


I'm sorry @Essexyellows but the knife crime in those numbers is very different to the knife crime seen in this incident. The way politicians and the media conduct themselves when talking about "the other side" very much does have an impact. I would hazard a bet the sick b**tard who did this today has never carried a knife before in his life.

I think that’s a good point. I suspect this isn’t someone who normally carries a knife or is involved in gang land stuff or whatever. But I shouldn’t speculate

 

[Essexyellows]

You're right. These attacks are almost impossible to prevent. If someone is determined to attack their MP then searches or security checks at public meetings will only move the scene of the attack rather than prevent it.

You mention 221 knife murders which are all absolutely tragic. But how many would be prevented by significantly restricting the freedoms of all?

Making the punishment much more of a deterrent would be a start.
Minimum Custodial for carrying.
Minimum Attempted Murder charge for using.

Locally the Police do a lot of knife prevention work with mobile metal detecting arches set up in many places but that needs backing up with stop & search and hard sentences.

No impact on the freedoms of all.

 

[Scotchegg]

A lot of ignorance regarding stop and search. The number of searches have decreased but the number of searches that lead to an arrest have increased. So these searches are more targeted, based on live intelligence and having a greater impact over the indiscriminate searching that not only wasted resources but also turned huge numbers of innocent people against the police.

Think of it this way. Les say that there are reports of someone getting stabbed not far from the Kassam following Saturdays game. It is suspected that it is football related. Would we support TVP searching everyone going into the next game, doing ID checks and detaining anyone who objected? Because that's what stop and search potentially allows.

 

[greatunclekip]

Utterly tragic. Disagreed with every single one of his political views bar his animal rights- but the root of a good democracy is people are entitled to their views, and people are entitled to legally criticise/protest. It would be boring if we all felt the same.

On top of that, by all accounts an excellent constituency MP with a majority of 10000, a father, husband, friend.

Horrible.

 

[Junior_1]

Nothing to hide, why would you object of a quick minute or two search if you’re not carrying?

Had it every other week when entering the LRT. Only object if you’ve something to hide.

 

[Followtheox1]

I suggest that we do more to identify and intervene with those who are mentally unwell (as is almost always the case in these instances).

I'm someone who knows a lot about the link between mental health and offending, you do realise that a significant proportion of the population have or will experience mental illness. The vast majority of people who experience mental health problems will never become violent.

 

[Notaswindonfan]

25 year old Somalian man thought to be terrorist related being reported on some outlets.

 

[Scotchegg]

I'm someone who knows a lot about the link between mental health and offending, you do realise that a significant proportion of the population have or will experience mental illness. The vast majority of people who experience mental health problems will never become violent.

That's of course true. But it's equally true that very many of those who commit some of the most violent offences do have mental health issues, and these have often gone undetected or unmanaged.

 

[LeftSideBoy]

Tragic events today, and totally without context. One thing I noticed today on Twitter is: Tory MP’s flock to Twitter in order to talk about the tragedy. They then post tweets containing a quote from a labour MP who said “Tory scum” in a recent party meeting. The same Tory MP’s then mention the fact ‘Tory scum’ is trending, and blame it on labour; despite the fact it’s trending because of the Tory MP’s that mentioned it in the first place. This whole thing is so bizarre. I don’t know what to make of it

 

[Followtheox1]

That's of course true. But it's equally true that very many of those who commit some of the most violent offences do have mental health issues, and these have often gone undetected or unmanaged.

Correlation is not causation. A small percentage of violent offenders offences are clearly due to their mental disorder. Hence the pretty small percentage of convictions due to diminished responsibility. A much larger percentage are violent offenders who also have a mental health history. The two things are not the same.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Tragic events today, and totally without context. One thing I noticed today on Twitter is: Tory MP’s flock to Twitter in order to talk about the tragedy. They then post tweets containing a quote from a labour MP who said “Tory scum” in a recent party meeting. The same Tory MP’s then mention the fact ‘Tory scum’ is trending, and blame it on labour; despite the fact it’s trending because of the Tory MP’s that mentioned it in the first place. This whole thing is so bizarre. I don’t know what to make of it

They’ve been doing this sort of thing for years. It isn’t about people ‘being’ Labour or Conservative or picking a side; this isn’t about being partisan or tribalistic. We have a regime in place at present, not a government. What you have noticed is not new or unique to this subject. The cabinet is disguised as the Conservative party as they have taken it over and get to use the name, but they are not politicians. They are gaslighters and dangerous manipulators of truth. What you have twigged today has been going on for years in various guises across all manner of subjects. They are constantly twisting the truth and getting millions of regular people to go to war with each other every day, because if we’re all fighting each other then we won’t fight them. They have incubated a violent and aggressive culture where society is split down the middle and then marched to the ballot box, and where every day is derby day. It’s like Oxford v Swindon 24/7. Fight the other side, smash the other side, crush the other side. It’s disgusting and we as regular human beings need to wise up and take that power away from them. This isn’t a game.

I am not entering into a party political discussion by saying this. I do not ‘belong’ to any party on any side of any divide, nor do I think dirty tricks is exclusive to one group of people. If anybody wants to act like a bull glimpsing a red rag then they can do it on their own and will only be proving my point. I’m sick of it and today of all days I’ve really had enough. I’m tired of everybody being angry at each other all the time and I wish more people saw what’s going on here.

 

[Scotchegg]

Correlation is not causation. A small percentage of violent offenders offences are clearly due to their mental disorder. Hence the pretty small percentage of convictions due to diminished responsibility. A much larger percentage are violent offenders who also have a mental health history. The two things are not the same.

I haven't said that one thing causes another, and I'm not sure of your background but it's incredibly difficult to clearly attribute someone's actions to their mental disorder, let alone to an extent where there is a diminishment of individual responsibility.

However serious mental disorders that go undetected or unmanaged puts both the individual and others at greater risk of harm. I don't know the circumstances of this offence but I'd be surprised if it wasn't identified that the perpetrator had some mental health issues. And whilst that may not be the root cause, it may well be a contributing factor that could have been managed differently.

 

[unification]

25 year old Somalian man thought to be terrorist related being reported on some outlets.

Some distinctions.

BBC say British-born man of Somalian origin.

GB News say Somalian man.

The usual wedge of divide comes crashing in from the less credible news outlet before David Amess’s body is even cold.

The politician point scoring continues. Sad.

 

[Followtheox1]

I haven't said that one thing causes another, and I'm not sure of your background but it's incredibly difficult to clearly attribute someone's actions to their mental disorder, let alone to an extent where there is a diminishment of individual responsibility.

However serious mental disorders that go undetected or unmanaged puts both the individual and others at greater risk of harm. I don't know the circumstances of this offence but I'd be surprised if it wasn't identified that the perpetrator had some mental health issues. And whilst that may not be the root cause, it may well be a contributing factor that could have been managed differently.

No but it's implied in your view. My point is lots of things are correlated with violence it doesn't mean to they cause it. Yes, serious mental disorders are much more likely to lead to harm to one's self than others. Many people associate schizophrenia with harm to other for example but those with schizophrenia are much more likely to harm themselves.

 

[gofish2]

I haven't said that one thing causes another, and I'm not sure of your background but it's incredibly difficult to clearly attribute someone's actions to their mental disorder, let alone to an extent where there is a diminishment of individual responsibility.

However serious mental disorders that go undetected or unmanaged puts both the individual and others at greater risk of harm. I don't know the circumstances of this offence but I'd be surprised if it wasn't identified that the perpetrator had some mental health issues. And whilst that may not be the root cause, it may well be a contributing factor that could have been managed differently.

A very thoughtful and informed response and one which I respect.

In the meantime, Here's my take.
I am completely shocked and saddened by this act of murder. At this moment, political, psychopathological, sociological and philosophical interpretations come after the funeral.

Time for respect and reflection. This doesn't invalidate the need to ask questions, far from it. But a life was taken today, and the awfulness for those who are closest deserves a quiet and dignified respect.
Then, come the difficult questions....

 

[Peterdev]

I was sorry to hear such sad news. No wonder his constituents were so upset. He was a man who’d represented them for no less than forty years. It is telling too that he wasn’t interested in promotions as he was far more interested in representing local people and addressing their concerns.
There are not that many people left in politics that put people ahead of themselves but he was a selfless individual who will be missed by his large family and many people inside and out of Politics
Rest in peace sir