Ex Player Herbie Kane

Foley said:
'Correct position'
So he can only play 1 role and play him there and he is great and elsewhere he is not?
Some lazy comments to in my view.
As others have said, Gorrin was dropped and Kane was dropped deeper ( when we neeed to win games)
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Taylor can only play in one position, up front.
What I am saying is Kane‘s best position is as an attacking midfielder, he is wasted as a defensive midfielder so not a lazy comment.
 
Scotchegg said:
Was Herbie ever expected to play the defensive midfield role?

Last season we went through a stage of looking fairly solid, but were drawing rather than winning. Gorrin came out and Cam played a little deeper, but as a player to direct play rather than sweep up at the back. We started scoring for fun, but also conceding more - but most importantly we picked up more points.

The reality is that this season, once we lost Gorrin, we changed the way our midfield played and looked to play on the front foot. This was incredibly exciting at times, and Herbie was part of that with some sublime play at times. His vision and passing is as good as anyone in the league, and you only need to speak to the likes of Cam to see how highly Herbie is rated.

Unfortunately, without Gorrin we didn't have the option to keep things tight and win ugly. This has been compounded by the fact that individually, and collectively, our defence has been well below the standard of last season. Last season, Stevens alone saved us several points with penalty saves and worldies almost every game. Sam Long was everywhere. Ruffels, although not at his best, was far more solid than anyone on the left.

I would definitely look to keep Herbie next season and build a midfield with him and Cam as the two in the middle. We would then play a Szmodics type ahead or a Gorrin type behind depending on who we are playing or the status of the game at the time.
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Scotchers agree with a lot of that except Branagan won’t be here next season
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Kane wasn’t the main issue this season. The biggest issue is that the defence simply isn’t good enough for promotion. Players like Long and even Moore need someone bringing in who is going to either take the shirt off them or actually make them fight for it until they bleed. They’re good L1 players but they aren’t great, and they have zero meaningful competition. We were better when Cadden was keeping Long out of the side and when Mousinho could still play alongside Dickie regularly, which meant Moore was permanently scrapping to be second choice and had to earn every single appearance, not automatically finding himself as the first name on the sheet.

It’s never going to change until that is sorted, whether it’s Kane, Gorrin or anybody else playing in front of the back line. If you want promotion you have to be ruthless and sign players that disrupt the current pecking order across the pitch, including defence. It’s not about playing style or kicking people until their shins are blue, it’s about balance and blend. We did just fine with a ball playing CDM in Lundstram who couldn’t tackle to save his life, because he had the likes of Wright, Mullins and Skarz behind him. Proper, good quality defenders.

Would happily see Kane stay (although a Gorrin type is needed for style variation as well as depth), but regardless of whether it’s even an option there would be no point unless the defence got sorted first. You could have Kante at CDM let alone Kane and it wouldn’t make much difference.
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Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this, stats don’t lie, we need defenders who put their bodies on the line, this really needs to improve plus I’d be ruthless and get a top class keeper in and sell either Stevens or Eastwood, plenty of work to do Karl!
 
I’d start by signing Ciaron Brown. I like his attitude.

And then buy bigger, quicker players all over the pitch. We were monstered physically by Rotherham on Saturday. So similar to the Wycombe away game. And the Ipswich home game.

Can Robbo learn new tricks though? I’d like to think he can.

Ps sign Kane. Plenty good enough to get us up.
 
So Barnsley buy Kane for £1.25m and will let him come to us for £600 grand will they. Don’t believe it.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
It’s never going to change until that is sorted, whether it’s Kane, Gorrin or anybody else playing in front of the back line. If you want promotion you have to be ruthless and sign players that disrupt the current pecking order across the pitch, including defence. It’s not about playing style or kicking people until their shins are blue, it’s about balance and blend. We did just fine with a ball playing CDM in Lundstram who couldn’t tackle to save his life, because he had the likes of Wright, Mullins and Skarz behind him. Proper, good quality defenders.
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Though we also had Alex MacDonald, who started 45 games that season, and was as defensively responsible a wide man as you'll find anywhere in the lower leagues.

Which is to say, it's a bit of both. We need to improve our defensive quality and depth - but our midfield also needs to be much more defensively responsible if we're to get our defensive record to where it needs to be.
 
MiddleBartonYellow said:
So Barnsley buy Kane for £1.25m and will let him come to us for £600 grand will they. Don’t believe it.
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That is exactly how football finances work though.

If Herbie was purchased for £1.2m and was on a three year contract, his value would be amortised on Barnsley's Balance Sheet through the term of his contract. In other words, after one year he would sit on the Balance Sheet as an asset worth £800,000 and after two years it would be £400,000. So if we bought him 18 months into a three year contract, his value to Barnsley's Balance Sheet would be £600,000. So in that case Barnsley would be able to offload him for £600,000 and break even, as they would have already absorbed the other £600,000 on their Balance Sheet through the amortisation process. This was precisely what Derby County lost points for, as they came up with a different, and unique to football, method of amortising their playing assets which kept their players at virtually full value until the last day of their contracts, thereby cheating the FFP system.

I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether he will or won't sign for us, but that is how it works, and that is why Barnsley may be prepared to sell him at that price.
 
Last edited:
Spot on ^^^

We already spent about £250,000 on loan fees and another £200,000 on his wages to have him on loan this season, so throw that into the pot and £600,000 becomes a very good deal from Barnsley’s end. They’ve done an excellent recouping job on him this season.

Although since the manager who wanted him gone is no longer there and they’re back in L1 there is every chance that selling him, let alone to a perceived promotion rival, may not be in their plans.
 
Colin B said:
That is exactly how football finances work though.

If Herbie was purchased for £1.2m and was on a three year contract, his value would be amortised on Barnsley's Balance Sheet through the term of his contract. In other words, after one year he would sit on the Balance Sheet as an asset worth £800,000 and after two years it would be £400,000. So if we bought him 18 months into a three year contract, his value to Barnsley's Balance Sheet would be £600,000. So in that case Barnsley would be able to offload him for £600,000 and break even, as they would have already absorbed the other £600,000 on their Balance Sheet through the amortisation process. This was precisely what Derby County lost points for, as they came up with a different, and unique to football, method of amortising their playing assets which kept their players at virtually full value until the last day of their contracts, thereby cheating the FFP system.

I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether he will or won't sign for us, but that is how it works, and that is why Barnsley may be prepared to sell him at that price.
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I won’t click like cos that implies I already knew that! Very interesting
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Spot on ^^^

We already spent about £250,000 on loan fees and another £200,000 on his wages to have him on loan this season, so throw that into the pot and £600,000 becomes a very good deal from Barnsley’s end. They’ve done an excellent recouping job on him this season.

Although since the manager who wanted him gone is no longer there and they’re back in L1 there is every chance that selling him, let alone to a perceived promotion rival, may not be in their plans.
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Especially seeing as he has demonstrated what he can do at this level for at least the first half of the season. Not to mention the aspects where he should be coached on. Assuming there's no skeletons in the closet, then Kane could do a good job up there...Barnsley meanwhile have played the loan market to its full potential whichever way it goes.
 
Colin B said:
That is exactly how football finances work though.

If Herbie was purchased for £1.2m and was on a three year contract, his value would be amortised on Barnsley's Balance Sheet through the term of his contract. In other words, after one year he would sit on the Balance Sheet as an asset worth £800,000 and after two years it would be £400,000. So if we bought him 18 months into a three year contract, his value to Barnsley's Balance Sheet would be £600,000. So in that case Barnsley would be able to offload him for £600,000 and break even, as they would have already absorbed the other £600,000 on their Balance Sheet through the amortisation process. This was precisely what Derby County lost points for, as they came up with a different, and unique to football, method of amortising their playing assets which kept their players at virtually full value until the last day of their contracts, thereby cheating the FFP system.

I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether he will or won't sign for us, but that is how it works, and that is why Barnsley may be prepared to sell him at that price.
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His wages must be £10k a week.
 
Colin B said:
That is exactly how football finances work though.

If Herbie was purchased for £1.2m and was on a three year contract, his value would be amortised on Barnsley's Balance Sheet through the term of his contract. In other words, after one year he would sit on the Balance Sheet as an asset worth £800,000 and after two years it would be £400,000. So if we bought him 18 months into a three year contract, his value to Barnsley's Balance Sheet would be £600,000. So in that case Barnsley would be able to offload him for £600,000 and break even, as they would have already absorbed the other £600,000 on their Balance Sheet through the amortisation process. This was precisely what Derby County lost points for, as they came up with a different, and unique to football, method of amortising their playing assets which kept their players at virtually full value until the last day of their contracts, thereby cheating the FFP system.

I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether he will or won't sign for us, but that is how it works, and that is why Barnsley may be prepared to sell him at that price.
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I'd agree 100% with the analysis other than the bit I've underlined......

.......because I don't think Barnsley would necessarily sell Kane for £600,000 just because that's now his book value. Even if the elegance might please their accountants!

A lot of players will have a market value that is very different from their book value.
Luke McNally, for example, is probably carried on our books for about $100k now, but we would all be very pissed off if we sold him for that!

I'd argue that Herbie Kane's value has gone down because Barnsley bought him as a 21 year old who looked destined to be a top Championship, if not Premier League player; and now he's a 23 year old who seems more likely to be spending his career as a good League One midfielder.

Do wonder whether Barnsley will want to sell him to one of their competitors next year though.........
 
Colin B said:
That is exactly how football finances work though.

If Herbie was purchased for £1.2m and was on a three year contract, his value would be amortised on Barnsley's Balance Sheet through the term of his contract. In other words, after one year he would sit on the Balance Sheet as an asset worth £800,000 and after two years it would be £400,000. So if we bought him 18 months into a three year contract, his value to Barnsley's Balance Sheet would be £600,000. So in that case Barnsley would be able to offload him for £600,000 and break even, as they would have already absorbed the other £600,000 on their Balance Sheet through the amortisation process. This was precisely what Derby County lost points for, as they came up with a different, and unique to football, method of amortising their playing assets which kept their players at virtually full value until the last day of their contracts, thereby cheating the FFP system.

I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether he will or won't sign for us, but that is how it works, and that is why Barnsley may be prepared to sell him at that price.
Click to expand...

I think Derby came up with a method of valuing players at resale value rather than amortised cost.

Which makes sense if they had a season of buying expensive players.
 
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