Ex Player Leon Chamber-Parillon

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I guess you could say try them out in the Mickey Mouse Trophy which we have done, the downside being that the farther you go in the competition and a Final beckons the stronger squad is played.

if they are good enough they'll come through (bearing in mind our target) I guess as was mentioned pre Doncaster those thought ready and likely to have a future were included in the squad.

Agree broadly but at such a key age to be given an opportunity to grasp rather than disillusionment from not being anywhere near can be the difference between making it or not.
I don't believe that the players are not out there.
One massive downside from the play off system is that more games are vital to try and get in them, completely wrong as a 46 game season should be the top 3 goes up end of but for making money of course attractive to do otherwise could have 3 or 4 games to blood the younger players without the games being vital.

 

[Sarge]

Agree broadly but at such a key age to be given an opportunity to grasp rather than disillusionment from not being anywhere near can be the difference between making it or not.
I don't believe that the players are not out there.
One massive downside from the play off system is that more games are vital to try and get in them, completely wrong as a 46 game season should be the top 3 goes up end of but for making money of course attractive to do otherwise could have 3 or 4 games to blood the younger players without the games being vital.

.... Sky TV show the playoff games live dont they? .... the tail has been wagging the (FA/ EPL/ EFL) dog for far too long IMO

 

[horseman]

Agree broadly but at such a key age to be given an opportunity to grasp rather than disillusionment from not being anywhere near can be the difference between making it or not.
I don't believe that the players are not out there.
One massive downside from the play off system is that more games are vital to try and get in them, completely wrong as a 46 game season should be the top 3 goes up end of but for making money of course attractive to do otherwise could have 3 or 4 games to blood the younger players without the games being vital.

Yes that's true ( no secret i don't like the Play Offs) but looking at this season alone using your Top 3 preference, we were pretty much in the hunt for a place between 3 to 6 so still the opportunity would not be there.

 

[horseman]

.... Sky TV show the playoff games live dont they? .... the tail has been wagging the (FA/ EPL/ EFL) dog for far too long IMO

I am of the opinion that no games should be on tv from the point of 5 games remaining, also all games should not be allowed to be rescheduled to the final week as was the case with Sunderland and Rotherham.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Yes that's true ( no secret i don't like the Play Offs) but looking at this season alone using your Top 3 preference, we were pretty much in the hunt for a place between 3 to 6 so still the opportunity would not be there.

While the season is still exciting if only 3 going up think that we were a fair way out of coming in top 3 with 3 or 4 games to go .

 

[horseman]

While the season is still exciting if only 3 going up think that we were a fair way out of coming in top 3 with 3 or 4 games to go .

I think with 4 to go we could get 81 / 82 pts? which at the time was thought might be enough

it was an exciting but bonkers League 1 last season

 

[horseman]

I am of the opinion that no games should be on tv from the point of 5 games remaining, also all games should not be allowed to be rescheduled to the final week as was the case with Sunderland and Rotherham.

of the 9 clubs in contention at Easter 7 were chosen for tv games, 2 that were not were ourselves and Wycombe and if memory serves Wycombe were the only one of the 9 whose games were not moved.

 

[Big Ron]

It would be really interesting to see how the value of an academy is calculated by a club. We've many come through, often with very glowing endorsements from KR, flirt with the first team, and then disappear. We've been at it for quite a bit now (after the Kassam cull) and we've produced very few first-team regulars. Perhaps you only need one Shandon Baptiste to justify it, but given the club puts so much into it, I can't help but be disappointed at our returns.

Completely agree and it's not actually helped by Robinson playing very young players in the cup competitions and seemingly building them up, while also saying 'look at me giving these young lads a chance'. They are seemingly not good enough and/or we are not prepared to throw them in the deep end.

 

[captainox]

LCP barely played this season - 3 appearances from us in the Carabao/Pizza cups.
And two loan spells that didn't work out due to Covid, Covid related recovery issues and then an ankle injury. (2 starts and 3 sub appearances for Havant then 25mins for Slough)
All that combined means he will have plateaued at most in his development, if not gone backwards.

It's all very well saying "I thought he looked good in his appearances last season" but we're another season on, he's barely kicked a ball and the club have to decide whether he's worth giving another deal.
Realistically he would have been looking at another loan spell out next season and maybe a few pizza trophy games. A waste of time for club and player. Better to be released, join a side (Slough indicated they'd be looking at next season with his initial loan spell) and go and play 30 odd games and show that you have ability/attitude to make it back.

For every player that has made it back to the EFL e.g. Welch-Hayes, you can name a hell of a lot who haven't yet and are therefore unlikely to.

 

[battman]

I think one thing that alarms me is that both LCP and Elechi are both 20, so it feels like the club is giving up on these players relatively quickly when there's still room to grow and progress. Even Nico Jones was 19 when he was released. You could see that as being ruthless, but with Covid considered I think it can be looked at as giving up on players too easily.

There's a clear problem of having players stepping up from the U23s into the first team, and giving cameos to 16-year-olds in the Pizza Trophy games just isn't cutting it. I don't know what the solution is (as if I did I'd take up a role as a development coach), but there needs to be a better pathway than making cameo appearances in trophy games and being loaned out to National League South sides that lack the required facilities.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I make KR correct on releasing LCP, looked like a very limited player on the rare occasions we saw him. Good luck to him for the future and no doubt he will be hoping to prove us wrong.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

LCP barely played this season - 3 appearances from us in the Carabao/Pizza cups.
And two loan spells that didn't work out due to Covid, Covid related recovery issues and then an ankle injury. (2 starts and 3 sub appearances for Havant then 25mins for Slough)
All that combined means he will have plateaued at most in his development, if not gone backwards.

It's all very well saying "I thought he looked good in his appearances last season" but we're another season on, he's barely kicked a ball and the club have to decide whether he's worth giving another deal.
Realistically he would have been looking at another loan spell out next season and maybe a few pizza trophy games. A waste of time for club and player. Better to be released, join a side (Slough indicated they'd be looking at next season with his initial loan spell) and go and play 30 odd games and show that you have ability/attitude to make it back.

For every player that has made it back to the EFL e.g. Welch-Hayes, you can name a hell of a lot who haven't yet and are therefore unlikely to.

I didn't, he gave the ball away quite a bit. Was obvious he wasn't anywhere near the level of our first team players (not that he should have been expected to be)

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I think one thing that alarms me is that both LCP and Elechi are both 20, so it feels like the club is giving up on these players relatively quickly when there's still room to grow and progress. Even Nico Jones was 19 when he was released.

There's a clear problem of having players stepping up from the U23s into the first team, and giving cameos to 16-year-olds in the Pizza Trophy games just isn't cutting it. I don't know what the solution is (as if I did I'd take up a role as a development coach), but there needs to be a better pathway than making cameo appearances in trophy games and being loaned out to National League South sides that lack the required facilities.

I think a month or two should be the maximum for any loan , get them involved with being in and around the first team squad after that , training with professionals with the attitude that has helped them make it .Getting advice etc and be on the bench to get used to the experience and getting minutes where can .
No more making a 17 yo Captain for games then never seeing them again .

 

[captainox]

I think a month or two should be the maximum for any loan , get them involved with being in and around the first team squad after that , training with professionals with the attitude that has helped them make it .Getting advice etc and be on the bench to get used to the experience and getting minutes where can .
No more making a 17 yo Captain for games then never seeing them again .

Majority of our loans to part-time clubs do still train with us on the day's that their loan club doesn't train. They're very much in and around it despite being on loan elsewhere.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Majority of our loans to part-time clubs do still train with us on the day's that their loan club doesn't train. They're very much in and around it despite being on loan elsewhere.

Yes but not quite the same going off to Slough rather than being part of the match day squad and experiencing the business side of it

 

[Sarge]

I think one thing that alarms me is that both LCP and Elechi are both 20, so it feels like the club is giving up on these players relatively quickly when there's still room to grow and progress. Even Nico Jones was 19 when he was released.

There's a clear problem of having players stepping up from the U23s into the first team, and giving cameos to 16-year-olds in the Pizza Trophy games just isn't cutting it. I don't know what the solution is (as if I did I'd take up a role as a development coach), but there needs to be a better pathway than making cameo appearances in trophy games and being loaned out to National League South sides that lack the required facilities.

there are U23 leagues a Premier plus North and South Leagues ( as there are no leagues for what used to be reserve teams- modern replacement for the good old football combination?) - while the majority of the PL U23s are PL U23 sides, North and South U23 leagues have a few PL U23s, a number of Championship U23s, plus Colchester, Crewe, Charlton, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Wigan .... plus Peterborough & Barnsley all have u23s sides competing in said leagues - which do have promotion to and relegation from the U23 PL

Maybe instead of punting promising youngsters out to Nat league and below sides, then getting shot of them a few months later, when said youngsters are still U20/U21, If OUFC had an U23 side in the U23 league south it may help with the continued development of home grown talent?

and they'd be on hand to be part of the matchday squad ( up to 5 subs next season- which would increase the amount of 'options' on the bench) if needed, - or if there was an injury crisis

 

[mooro]

Sounds good in theory, but there are a few issues:

I) senior squad cap, meaning we can't have people in u23s over a certain age to cover the first team without them counting in the 22.
2) we would need to commit to keeping a good number of u23s in order to be able to put a full XI on the pitch each game. Yes, you can supplement with u18s, but then you are either making them play twice a week as opposed to being coached, or taking them out of the u18s meaning U16s get moved up or doubled up etc etc.
3) leagues also have fixed fixture dates which risks clashes with senior midweek games, so more unavailability issues.


I saw all this play out years back when we were still in the old reserve league. I remember one week when the youth team played in Plymouth on the Saturday, then 9 of the same Xi played a reserve fixture against championship side Ipswich on the Tuesday and lost 9-0.
Similarly, midweek senior games meant very few senior players were able to feature, meaning the youngsters were very much left to fend for themselves in games. This meant the likes of an 18 year old Andy Gunn (as one example) spending games marshalling two 17 year olds and a 16 year old alongside him in a back four, rather than the perceived idea that he himself learns from playing alongside a senior player.

This is why loans and the odd friendly when the calender allows have become the preferred option

 

[Sarge]

Sounds good in theory, but there are a few issues:

I) senior squad cap, meaning we can't have people in u23s over a certain age to cover the first team without them counting in the 22.
2) we would need to commit to keeping a good number of u23s in order to be able to put a full XI on the pitch each game. Yes, you can supplement with u18s, but then you are either making them play twice a week as opposed to being coached, or taking them out of the u18s meaning U16s get moved up or doubled up etc etc.
3) leagues also have fixed fixture dates which risks clashes with senior midweek games, so more unavailability issues.


I saw all this play out years back when we were still in the old reserve league. I remember one week when the youth team played in Plymouth on the Saturday, then 9 of the same Xi played a reserve fixture against championship side Ipswich on the Tuesday and lost 9-0.
Similarly, midweek senior games meant very few senior players were able to feature, meaning the youngsters were very much left to fend for themselves in games. This meant the likes of an 18 year old Andy Gunn (as one example) spending games marshalling two 17 year olds and a 16 year old alongside him in a back four, rather than the perceived idea that he himself learns from playing alongside a senior player.

This is why loans and the odd friendly when the calender allows have become the preferred option

good counterpoints there @mooro

 

[Foley]

Th

there are U23 leagues a Premier plus North and South Leagues ( as there are no leagues for what used to be reserve teams- modern replacement for the good old football combination?) - while the majority of the PL U23s are PL U23 sides, North and South U23 leagues have a few PL U23s, a number of Championship U23s, plus Colchester, Crewe, Charlton, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Wigan .... plus Peterborough & Barnsley all have u23s sides competing in said leagues - which do have promotion to and relegation from the U23 PL

Maybe instead of punting promising youngsters out to Nat league and below sides, then getting shot of them a few months later, when said youngsters are still U20/U21, If OUFC had an U23 side in the U23 league south it may help with the continued development of home grown talent?

and they'd be on hand to be part of the matchday squad ( up to 5 subs next season- which would increase the amount of 'options' on the bench) if needed, - or if there was an injury crisis

The problem with U23 leagues is that it is not physical mens football. That is why PL clubs lend players to L1 clubs.
Even if you look at Joey, Baptiste, Stevens, they went out on loan before making it.
There is definitely a void, bit not easy to see how to fill it

 

[dickwalton1964]

I think one thing that alarms me is that both LCP and Elechi are both 20, so it feels like the club is giving up on these players relatively quickly when there's still room to grow and progress. Even Nico Jones was 19 when he was released. You could see that as being ruthless, but with Covid considered I think it can be looked at as giving up on players too easily.

There's a clear problem of having players stepping up from the U23s into the first team, and giving cameos to 16-year-olds in the Pizza Trophy games just isn't cutting it. I don't know what the solution is (as if I did I'd take up a role as a development coach), but there needs to be a better pathway than making cameo appearances in trophy games and being loaned out to National League South sides that lack the required facilities.

You cannot keep them all. The manager sees them day in and day out and I'd trust his judgement. There's players elsewhere in L1 with 50 to 75 appearances at the age of 20, LCP and Elechi would surely have made more of an impact by now and forced their way consistently into match day squads. It hasn't happened, getting rid seems absolutely the right call.