General The Goalkeeping Dilemma

[nige01ox]

It felt to me that so many times the opposition would be doing absolutely nothing and barely threatening, then go and score with their first shot on target - 1 shot 1 goal sort of thing. I guess our goals conceded being quite a way above our xGA bears this out.

I was a huge fan of Stevens last season but his general goalkeeping seems to have gone quite downhill, so now I'm of the opinion that if we get a decent offer for him this summer we should accept and look for a new no.1.

 

[Foley]

Stevens has lost confidence. His starting position is back on his heels, and he seems to have lost a bit of pace off his line. Possibly as a result of glandular fever. Trouble is, goalkeeper is the one position that is very confidence based. A bit like a golfer who gets the yips. My concern is that he might not get that confidence back. The better keepers in L1 dominate their area, and Stevens doesn’t. Eastwood is a good L1 back up, but no more than that these days.

He is young and had a lot if illness last season.
We have seen how good he can be.
I really hope that he isn't written off by supporters already.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

It doesn’t matter who the player is, if we want to go up then every player’s place should be up for grabs and they either improve or we look at bringing in better.
Just the same as Seddon and Long, both steady full backs in this league but if we can bring in a better option then we should.

 

[YellowinBirmingham]

Good post. Good discussion!

Would love to see shot maps / video analysis for our keepers vs others on the league. It feels like we concede a lot from around the edge of the box, often after half clearing something. So it feels to me like getting a settled defence and a proper CDM in place would make a big difference to either keeper.

I want Stevens to succeed though, so I'm not impartial in my analysis!

 

[The mighty Aldo]

To be fair to both, not having a settled back four doesn’t help, add to that the loss of Gorrin and things were shaky at times.
What I would say is that the previous season Stevens was outstanding and was a great shot stopper. For some reason that part of his game has declined.
As someone has said on here earlier (Nige01Ox)we would be dominating games miss a few chances or even go one up but the first sight of goal the opposition has and the ball is in the back of our net. Most times sloppy defending but other times poor goalkeeping.
I would like us to sell Stevens for a good fee and get someone in like Archer or ideally a better keeper than that. We then have Eastwood as back up which is more than good enough for this league

 

[battman]

I think we're in a bit of a difficult decision because both keepers probably operate at the same ability level, whereas others clubs will have ace fined number 1 and 2. I think there are plenty of other areas of the squad that need attention more than the goalkeeper, and if we do fix the issues with the defence and the defensive midfield, then you can cut out the scoring shots opposition teams have from the edge of the box.

I also hope a bit of a rest and a full pre-season gives Stevens and Wayne Brown the chance to work on anything he's struggling with and to build-up his confidence again.

 

[battman]

I agree, didn't Wayne Brown go in goal for us and was awful, he's the coach!

I think that's unfair, the belief that a good coach had to be a good player is a myth, and there are plenty of examples of great players being poor coaches.

I don't know what Brown gets up to day-to-day with the players, but what I will say is that he's been our GK coach since 2012, working under Wilder, Waddock, Appleton, Clotet and Robinson. If he was no good, surely he'd have been replaced by now.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

I think we're in a bit of a difficult decision because both keepers probably operate at the same ability level, whereas others clubs will have ace fined number 1 and 2. I think there are plenty of other areas of the squad that need attention more than the goalkeeper, and if we do fix the issues with the defence and the defensive midfield, then you can cut out the scoring shots opposition teams have from the edge of the box.

I also hope a bit of a rest and a full pre-season gives Stevens and Wayne Brown the chance to work on anything he's struggling with and to build-up his confidence again.

They're not having to face a large number of shots though, that is not the issue. The issue is saving the relatively small number of shots they do face.
Not sure the answer to our Keepers struggling for form is 'don't let the opposition take any shots' - pretty sure we work against that anyway and some will get through!

Agree with the point about pre-season/Stevens.

 

[WRox]

There’s no dilemma here, let form, fixtures and fitness determine who plays. Certainly don’t need to worry about creating more work and risk for ourselves this summer by trying to replace either also.

 

[battman]

They're not having to face a large number of shots though, that is not the issue. The issue is saving the relatively small number of shots they do face.
Not sure the answer to our Keepers struggling for form is 'don't let the opposition take any shots' - pretty sure we work against that anyway and some will get through!

Agree with the point about pre-season/Stevens.

The problem is if you give unmarked midfielders time to take a shot from the edge of the box, unless you have a world-beating goalkeeper between the sticks, the opposition will score more often than not. It's not just about the volume of shots, but the quality of them too.

I've seen games where keepers have conceded 4 and none of them have been preventable from their point of view, and I've also seen games where only 1 is conceded but they've been at fault. It's easy to blame the keeper if a goal goes in, but the best way of protecting our goal is by preventing the opposition creating quality chances, no matter the frequency per game.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

The problem is if you give unmarked midfielders time to take a shot from the edge of the box, unless you have a world-beating goalkeeper between the sticks, the opposition will score more often than not. It's not just about the volume of shots, but the quality of them too.

I've seen games where keepers have conceded 4 and none of them have been preventable from their point of view, and I've also seen games where only 1 is conceded but they've been at fault. It's easy to blame the keeper if a goal goes in, but the best way of protecting our goal is by preventing the opposition creating quality chances, no matter the frequency per game.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it fundamentally misses the point. The xGA factors in the difficulty of the shots faced. Of course you can't reduce it all to stats and science, but the clear evidence is that neither of our Keepers have had good seasons, in fact they've both been well below par.

The reason for the thread and poll is to question how we address the issue. Do we hope that either Keeper improves next season, or bring in fresh blood? I haven't answered the poll myself as I'm genuinely not sure. I would hope Stevens can get back to his high standards, and if I was KR I'd be asking the same question to Wayne Brown and keeping an open mind.

However, to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's not been an issue for us this season is at best naive. If we go into next season with the same Keepers and neither of them improve their form significantly then the chances of promotion are massively diminished.

 

[Marked Ox]

I understand what you're trying to say, but it fundamentally misses the point. The xGA factors in the difficulty of the shots faced. Of course you can't reduce it all to stats and science, but the clear evidence is that neither of our Keepers have had good seasons, in fact they've both been well below par.

The reason for the thread and poll is to question how we address the issue. Do we hope that either Keeper improves next season, or bring in fresh blood? I haven't answered the poll myself as I'm genuinely not sure. I would hope Stevens can get back to his high standards, and if I was KR I'd be asking the same question to Wayne Brown and keeping an open mind.

However, to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's not been an issue for us this season is at best naive. If we go into next season with the same Keepers and neither of them improve their form significantly then the chances of promotion are massively diminished.

You're assuming xGA is a good measure.

 

[battman]

I understand what you're trying to say, but it fundamentally misses the point. The xGA factors in the difficulty of the shots faced. Of course you can't reduce it all to stats and science, but the clear evidence is that neither of our Keepers have had good seasons, in fact they've both been well below par.

The reason for the thread and poll is to question how we address the issue. Do we hope that either Keeper improves next season, or bring in fresh blood? I haven't answered the poll myself as I'm genuinely not sure. I would hope Stevens can get back to his high standards, and if I was KR I'd be asking the same question to Wayne Brown and keeping an open mind.

However, to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it's not been an issue for us this season is at best naive. If we go into next season with the same Keepers and neither of them improve their form significantly then the chances of promotion are massively diminished.

I'm not suggesting we pretend it's not an issue for us, but I think with the keepers we have - who are both decent for this level - we'll be ok for next season. And as I said before, I hope with a break Stevens can get back to performing how we know he can.

But I don't think we can simply fix an issue like conceding too many goals by looking at just the goalkeeper to produce worldie saves every game; the defence and midfield need to do their bit too to prevent quality chances being created.

 

[Horse]

Both our keepers are easily beaten by shots across their body. I’d look at the coaching first.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

Might be worth resurrecting this thread (and poll)

For the record, 64% wanted a new Keeper, so the news from across the Irish Sea should be welcome.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

There's certainly a question about coaching.

I'm by no means an expert on goalkeeping but I've noticed that during warm ups and games that Stevens almost takes an extra step to get set. He's then either a little flat footed and slow to dive or he starts his dive a step or two out of position leaving far too much space.

The goals that he has conceded are very rarely right in the corner. It doesn't take a worldie to beat him, in fact many of the goals conceded have been pretty ordinary.

Stevens has the ability. He showed it in spades last season. But with the analysis available it should be easy to spot what is going wrong and what needs to be done to address it. Get back to basics and build confidence and we have the potential to have one of the leagues best young goalkeepers. But carry on the way we are and that potential might come to nothing.

Agree with that - think it was Bolton away early last season where I started to have a few doubts about Jack Stevens. The Bolton equalizer just before half time
had me asking questions. Gorrin didn’t do enough of course but I am not sure Stevens should have beaten from there as he was that side of he goal.

The amount of goals both keepers conceded from low shots across their bodies was frightening and it got to the point that any half decent strike seemed to find the back of the net.

 

[Northstandboy]

Would we get rid of Stevens are seemingly given him the #1 shirt for this season?

 

[unification]

A few 'if' scenarios coming here.

If McGinty is coming in, I'd be very surprised if he's made first choice. He's 22 with 45 starts in the LOI to his name. For all the chatter of new 'keepers, that's a hell of jump up to make.

If one of Stevens or Eastwood was to leave - which I presume would have to happen unless we're loaning McGinty straight out again - we could be left with our 'senior' GK having fewer than 100 games to his name or an experienced pro but in a slight decline on what he's been capable of before. Stevens had a poor campaign last year as the stats show albeit I think injury and illness had a part in that. Eastwood is fine but is no longer the force of old. He isn't going to improve whereas Stevens might do. He deserves that opportunity to in my view.

McGinty may not be the silver bullet many fans think to the goalkeeping conundrum.

 

[Wallop]

A few 'if' scenarios coming here.

If McGinty is coming in, I'd be very surprised if he's made first choice. He's 22 with 45 starts in the LOI to his name. For all the chatter of new 'keepers, that's a hell of jump up to make.

If one of Stevens or Eastwood was to leave - which I presume would have to happen unless we're loaning McGinty straight out again - we could be left with our 'senior' GK having fewer than 100 games to his name or an experienced pro but in a slight decline on what he's been capable of before. Stevens had a poor campaign last year as the stats show albeit I think injury and illness had a part in that. Eastwood is fine but is no longer the force of old. He isn't going to improve whereas Stevens might do. He deserves that opportunity to in my view.

McGinty may not be the silver bullet many fans think to the goalkeeping conundrum.

I was thinking the very same - I hope he's a world-beater but if Stevens does leave, then there is a high risk that our goalkeeping position is worsened from last season.

 

[southcoastyellow]

I would expect we keep three keepers and one would go in January (sold or loan)?