National News Shamima Begum

Once a religious fundamentalist always a religious fundamentalist.

Is that true? Susceptible (young) people can be influenced/brainwashed by any number of causes. Animal rights, nuclear disarmament, extinction rebellion, football hooliganism, and religion obviously.

Many of these commit varying levels of criminality. I've looked up most of them! Swampy, a guy who thought he was King Arthur and other eco warriors, Andy Frain (Reading/Chelsea thug), Barry Horne (ALF firebomber), as well as religious terrorists from the IRA to ISIS.

Like all prisoners, some change. Some grow up, change their thinking and return back in society and never cause any problems again. Others do remain a risk, but (virtually) all are still released regardless.

Rehabilitation and risk management are far more complex than sweeping statements like yours. And whilst I have no sympathy for this girl, the idea that she can never change is simply wrong.
 
Is that true? Susceptible (young) people can be influenced/brainwashed by any number of causes. Animal rights, nuclear disarmament, extinction rebellion, football hooliganism, and religion obviously.

Many of these commit varying levels of criminality. I've looked up most of them! Swampy, a guy who thought he was King Arthur and other eco warriors, Andy Frain (Reading/Chelsea thug), Barry Horne (ALF firebomber), as well as religious terrorists from the IRA to ISIS.

Like all prisoners, some change. Some grow up, change their thinking and return back in society and never cause any problems again. Others do remain a risk, but (virtually) all are still released regardless.

Rehabilitation and risk management are far more complex than sweeping statements like yours. And whilst I have no sympathy for this girl, the idea that she can never change is simply wrong.

Read the London Bridge thread - normal folk can be rehabilitated and folk with MH issues can get therapy.

Religious fundamentalists can`t, the doctorine is ingrained in their every waking minute.
 
Is that true? Susceptible (young) people can be influenced/brainwashed by any number of causes. Animal rights, nuclear disarmament, extinction rebellion, football hooliganism, and religion obviously.

Many of these commit varying levels of criminality. I've looked up most of them! Swampy, a guy who thought he was King Arthur and other eco warriors, Andy Frain (Reading/Chelsea thug), Barry Horne (ALF firebomber), as well as religious terrorists from the IRA to ISIS.

Like all prisoners, some change. Some grow up, change their thinking and return back in society and never cause any problems again. Others do remain a risk, but (virtually) all are still released regardless.

Rehabilitation and risk management are far more complex than sweeping statements like yours. And whilst I have no sympathy for this girl, the idea that she can never change is simply wrong.
the wonders of the internet ;-)

.... unlike you to have a typo @Scotchegg
 
Read the London Bridge thread - normal folk can be rehabilitated and folk with MH issues can get therapy.

Religious fundamentalists can`t, the doctorine is ingrained in their every waking minute.

Some religious fundermentalist can't. Very many can and are released all the time and are no longer a risk.

You'll be amazed at how "normal" many of these people are!
 
Some religious fundermentalist can't. Very many can and are released all the time and are no longer a risk.

You'll be amazed at how "normal" many of these people are!

I`ll take a fair bet that many of them have had the thoughts for jihad, but have not travelled to join the party.

Those that have, and returned, invariably end up killing people because that is how they choose to live and die.

Put her before a Syrian court and let her serve that sentence, then we`ll think about what to do next.
 
Rehabilitation and risk management are far more complex than sweeping statements like yours. And whilst I have no sympathy for this girl, the idea that she can never change is simply wrong.

The only reason she “may” have changed is because ISIS got fucked over and she backed the wrong horse. Now she wants to come home with her tail between her legs.

A bit like one of your prisoners. The only reason they want to rehabilitate is because they got caught.
 
Can you provide any evidence to support this claim?

I said invariably - just because they haven`t yet doesn`t mean they won`t....
Around 500 have returned, some after serving time abroad.
Around 10% have been prosecuted but can`t be charged again for the crimes they have already been jailed for elsewhere.
Some go into programmes and rehab.
Then you get the likes of Salmen Abedi and his brother in Manchester.
There is also Usman Khan, spent time in Pakistan and was involved in terrorism deeply enough to get an indeterminate sentence for public protection but appears to have pulled the wool over peoples eyes and killed two and ended up dead.
 
Fine with that. At least she'd be facing justice in this country, going through due process with our Govt facing up to its responsibilities rather than just cancelling her citizenship.

Committed crimes in/against Syria, gets tried and imprisoned there and we`ll deal with her if she gets released.
 
I said invariably - just because they haven`t yet doesn`t mean they won`t....
Around 500 have returned, some after serving time abroad.
Around 10% have been prosecuted but can`t be charged again for the crimes they have already been jailed for elsewhere.
Some go into programmes and rehab.
Then you get the likes of Salmen Abedi and his brother in Manchester.
There is also Usman Khan, spent time in Pakistan and was involved in terrorism deeply enough to get an indeterminate sentence for public protection but appears to have pulled the wool over peoples eyes and killed two and ended up dead.

So you can evidence 3 or 0.6% that have committed further offences from the 500 or so that have returned.

Hardly proves your statement that no one changes.
 
The only reason she “may” have changed is because ISIS got fucked over and she backed the wrong horse. Now she wants to come home with her tail between her legs.

A bit like one of your prisoners. The only reason they want to rehabilitate is because they got caught.

You're right, to an extent.

The biggest factor in someone properly rehabilitating is age. People get older and they suddenly realise that the thrill of offending (in any capacity) is hugely outweighed by the reality of spending ever increasing periods of time banged up.

Many people do stupid things when they're young and hugely regret them when they grow up. Admittedly, very few make the "mistake" by going off to a war zone to fight against their home country! And that is why I couldn't care less about Begum. But that doesn't mean that IF she did return, and spent time in prison for her actions, that she couldn't eventually be safely released.
 
So you can evidence 3 or 0.6% that have committed further offences from the 500 or so that have returned.

Hardly proves your statement that no one changes.

Come back to me on that one, just because they haven`t done anything yet does not mean they have been rehabilitated.

Terrorists play the long game as do religious fundamentalists.
 
Committed crimes in/against Syria, gets tried and imprisoned there and we`ll deal with her if she gets released.

International responsibility and our national responsibility rather than palming it off to a failed state. Cowardly of our Govt.
 
You're right, to an extent.

The biggest factor in someone properly rehabilitating is age. People get older and they suddenly realise that the thrill of offending (in any capacity) is hugely outweighed by the reality of spending ever increasing periods of time banged up.

Many people do stupid things when they're young and hugely regret them when they grow up. Admittedly, very few make the "mistake" by going off to a war zone to fight against their home country! And that is why I couldn't care less about Begum. But that doesn't mean that IF she did return, and spent time in prison for her actions, that she couldn't eventually be safely released.

Fair comments
 

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