National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

So it's OK to call people stupid now is it?

Gotcha.

When did the rules change :unsure: #askingforafriend :ROFLMAO:

Is there still a period (in the lead up to a referendum, for example) when it's not OK?

It`s a fact of life dearest, some people are intellectually challenged, they are all around us, and the primary reason we need signs on things that are obviously dangerous.

And they can vote too.

:)
 
Still the problems musicians face in setting up tours in the EU hasn't been resolved, but hey I guess it isn't as jingoistic as fishing rights and blue passports...

Lord Admiral Frost is currently lashing himself to the mast of HMS Brexit whilst Captain Bojo is at the helm belting out "Rule Britannia" at the top of his voice....
 
I think you'll find that this is not a problem as it doesn't personally affect @Wandering Yellow
It's a piffling industry anyway.....

I mean it's only worth £5.8 billion a year to the UK economy and employs around 100,000 people. That's only as big as the entire UK construction industry.

And anyway...we have literally MILLIONS of job vacancies....they'll all be fine!
:rolleyes:
 
It's a piffling industry anyway.....

I mean it's only worth £5.8 billion a year to the UK economy and employs around 100,000 people. That's only as big as the entire UK construction industry.

And anyway...we have literally MILLIONS of job vacancies....they'll all be fine!
:rolleyes:
And a business that estimates 29,000 people have lost their jobs due to the pandemic, primarily in the live sector. Now that touring is beginning to open up again, artists are having to deal with the terrible Brexit deal 'negotiated' and as @RyanioBirdio has previously pointed out, a lot international acts will use the EU as a base, rather than hiring people and equipment from the UK.
 
And a business that estimates 29,000 people have lost their jobs due to the pandemic, primarily in the live sector. Now that touring is beginning to open up again, artists are having to deal with the terrible Brexit deal 'negotiated' and as @RyanioBirdio has previously pointed out, a lot international acts will use the EU as a base, rather than hiring people and equipment from the UK.
lose/lose then...
 
Now that touring is beginning to open up again, artists are having to deal with the terrible Brexit deal 'negotiated' and as @RyanioBirdio has previously pointed out, a lot international acts will use the EU as a base, rather than hiring people and equipment from the UK.
On this subject, I saw a mate of mine last month for the first time in two years. He’s the manager of a pretty sizeable group - arena level with number one albums to their name. Told me that the band has just recently moved its operational headquarters to Leipzig, which is where it now keeps most of its gear and equipment so that it’s inside the EU, as well as where their European touring revenue will be paid and therefore taxed. Means that they don’t have to fill out any customs forms every time they cross a border in relation to their cargo, as it’s all EU-based cargo.

They’re also looking into downsizing their UK merch operations in terms of e-comm and moving most of their fulfilment and stock base to Leipzig as well, as they sell more shirts and hoodies etc to mainland Europe combined than the UK, meaning all these different customs issues and scattergun fees that keep popping up just aren’t sustainable. So that means less sales tax and VAT collected by the British government as well as less work for British manufacturing and fulfilment firms, as they’re going to go from having 100% of the work to nearer 50%. They’ll continue to print their touring merch for UK shows here, but whereas before they would use UK-produced merch and carry it with them, and UK firms would control the on-road top-ups when stocks ran low, now they’ll be using German companies for anything on the continent, again due to them being EU goods just like the equipment. More money lost for British industry. This will become the template for any touring act of any significance and will lead to a sizeable reduction in revenue for the treasury. There’s no way of making that money back, it just moves overseas.

As for the VISA offer, that only applies to movement of the person in principle. It gets them over the border without having to go to embassies to get work permits in advance - that is about it. It has no meaningful detail in terms of commercial goods fees or charges on revenues generated from merchandise sales, or equipment needing to be declared and moved through borders every day or two. There is still also an ongoing and very confused conversation about insurance requirements taking place beyond that, because various companies are now saying their policies are only valid for one side or the other. Regardless, the UK will now make much less money from its own artists and associated sectors and industries, and there is no way to offset those losses.

It is what it is.
 
On this subject, I saw a mate of mine last month for the first time in two years. He’s the manager of a pretty sizeable group - arena level with number one albums to their name. Told me that the band has just recently moved its operational headquarters to Leipzig, which is where it now keeps most of its gear and equipment so that it’s inside the EU, as well as where their European touring revenue will be paid and therefore taxed. Means that they don’t have to fill out any customs forms every time they cross a border in relation to their cargo, as it’s all EU-based cargo.

They’re also looking into downsizing their UK merch operations in terms of e-comm and moving most of their fulfilment and stock base to Leipzig as well, as they sell more shirts and hoodies etc to mainland Europe combined than the UK, meaning all these different customs issues and scattergun fees that keep popping up just aren’t sustainable. So that means less sales tax and VAT collected by the British government as well as less work for British manufacturing and fulfilment firms, as they’re going to go from having 100% of the work to nearer 50%. They’ll continue to print their touring merch for UK shows here, but whereas before they would use UK-produced merch and carry it with them, and UK firms would control the on-road top-ups when stocks ran low, now they’ll be using German companies for anything on the continent, again due to them being EU goods just like the equipment. More money lost for British industry. This will become the template for any touring act of any significance and will lead to a sizeable reduction in revenue for the treasury. There’s no way of making that money back, it just moves overseas.

As for the VISA offer, that only applies to movement of the person in principle. It gets them over the border without having to go to embassies to get work permits in advance - that is about it. It has no meaningful detail in terms of commercial goods fees or charges on revenues generated from merchandise sales, or equipment needing to be declared and moved through borders every day or two. There is still also an ongoing and very confused conversation about insurance requirements taking place beyond that, because various companies are now saying their policies are only valid for one side or the other. Regardless, the UK will now make much less money from its own artists and associated sectors and industries, and there is no way to offset those losses.

It is what it is.
Which is all OK for your larger artists, but for the smaller groups (say playing venues the size of the Oxford O2) doing something like that I can't see would be an option, so what do they do? Not tour the EU I'd guess, which of course hits their livelihoods as they will have less exposure.
 
Which is all OK for your larger artists, but for the smaller groups (say playing venues the size of the Oxford O2) doing something like that I can't see would be an option, so what do they do? Not tour the EU I'd guess, which of course hits their livelihoods as they will have less exposure.
They’ll find a way around it, but it’s going to become far more expensive and far more complicated, which means many artists will do it a lot less and therefore they’ll grow a lot slower if they’re not established. Even when the bands manage to work around it in terms of getting on the road, you’re not changing the fact that the British industry has been cut when it comes to the merchandising revenues in particular, as well as making it harder for smaller artists to stick at it. We’ve moved chunks of our own economy to other places and they won’t be coming back - there’s no waiting game and no advantage that just needs time to come to fruition.
 
Might be being thick here.
But European countries could grant temporary artist visas instead of what seems to be happening of band X having to go to the Spanish embassy, hand in passports for weeks and pay huge fees?
Also a UK band might be able to do a three month European tour across 20 countries, but does a Spanish band need a three month UK visa?
 
They’ll find a way around it, but it’s going to become far more expensive and far more complicated, which means many artists will do it a lot less and therefore they’ll grow a lot slower if they’re not established. Even when the bands manage to work around it in terms of getting on the road, you’re not changing the fact that the British industry has been cut when it comes to the merchandising revenues in particular, as well as making it harder for smaller artists to stick at it. We’ve moved chunks of our own economy to other places and they won’t be coming back - there’s no waiting game and no advantage that just needs time to come to fruition.
This. It's makes things more difficult at a time when it's becoming way more competitive to compete internationally - it's not just US and domestic acts now, the increasingly global nature of the business means we are competing with countries Korean, Italian, Russian, Columbia and France.

At the top end of the scale (beyond my pay grade!), 2020 was the first time we haven't had an act in the IFPI Top 20 Sellers chart since its inception in 2013. That will probably change in 2021 with the likes of Coldplay, Adele and Ed Sheeran releasing singles and albums. We're also having to work harder in traditional areas of global strength - ie dance, rock, alternative, etc.
 
Might be being thick here.
But European countries could grant temporary artist visas instead of what seems to be happening of band X having to go to the Spanish embassy, hand in passports for weeks and pay huge fees?
Also a UK band might be able to do a three month European tour across 20 countries, but does a Spanish band need a three month UK visa?
It used to be fairly easy with freedom of movement and labour - we are now dealing with this on a country by country basis with restrictions and costs arising at every juncture. They could and will grant touring visas, there's just a lot more hurdles to jump.

We do traditionally get a lot of European acts touring the UK - however we were always the net beneficiaries previously, a lot more going out than coming in.
 
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