General Commercial and Marketing

werthersoriginal said:
You said they had 'their finger in the pie' - that seems to imply they are benefiting financially. Sounds a bit libellous to me though I have no idea about any of this.
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There is being supportive of a move, as we all are, and then there is the danger of being "sucked in" to far to be a truly independent representative body.

Ergo you go from being the very able kitchen assistant to fancying having a go at baking.

I said nothing about "financial benefit" and the Collins definition of the phrase is "If you say that someone has a finger in every pie, you mean they are involved in a lot of things. "

Following on from that is they may, collectively, be taking on too much and neglecting their key purpose - to keep us supporters/customers/plebs informed/represented as per the "mission statement" on the website.
 
Steve Gilbert said:
Thanks for the update Paul, not sure the tone of the post is really needed considering how quiet OxVox have been over certain matters but it is appreciated all the same.

You say you have been in talks with the club for months about the situation about Michael and Sue yet no one knows that until now. Could OxVox not have come out and said they were aware of the matter and it was being discussed? That straight away would have damped some of the recent unhappiness amongst the supporters.

You also mention that you don’t have much time to come onto the forum these days, again, that’s fair enough as I am sure you have plenty of other stuff to do. Having said that, as the 1 and only forum for the football club and the amount of discussion there is about all matters of the club, on a daily basis (more so than any other social media platform) it might be wise for someone from OxVox keeping an eye on things because then we don’t get into a situation where things are said, taken out of context, and then run as facts.

Again, appreciate the update but the tone of it is unnecessary considering how quiet and distant the supporters group have been for far too long now.
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Hi Steve

We did come out and say it in a previous update;

d) Michael North, Sue and the wonderful match day stall staff

We believe that the matchday stalls and the people that volunteer to run them are an important part of the Club, adding a fan-led positive to the matchday experience, while raising substantial funds for the Oxford United in the Community Trust. We discussed this with Adam and urged the Club to ensure they can continue. While we understand there are issues to navigate regarding what can be sold at the club, the complexity of our licence agreement, and some branding issues, we stressed that it was vital not to allow this important part of our community to be brushed aside. Stopping to chat with Michael and the team is a part of the match day ritual for many of us and Adam understood our point and positive discussions have begun. We will keep up to date with those and hope to keep making progress that works for all.

That was the extract. It was sent months ago and we have been working on the situation ever since. I speak to Micheal at most games and we emailed last week. We have a meeting set with Adam Benson next week at which it is top of our list. We are being neither silent or soft on it.

This is the thing about social media, it can amplify a suggestion that might not even be accurate just because you might have missed it. It’s almost impossible to read everything on here and absolutely impossible to reply to it all. That is why we always ask people to contact us.

With regards to the tone I can assure that was only aimed at the nonsense of OxVox having some sort of conflict of interest and financial stake in the new stadium, not at any other questions put to us. None of us is perfect and i'm sorry but I found it incredibly unfair on the other committee members so spoke my mind.

I fully accept you might feel we have still been ‘easy’ on the club but I do not apologise for working hard with them on the massively important stadium project. One that could finally give us financial sustainability and free us from the shackles we have been under for years. The fact that we keep our council publicly while under so much scrutiny does not mean we are not having very difficult and strong conversations with the club. I would rather take flack while getting things done than get a pat on the back for screaming things from the rooftops and putting our progress in jeopardy but members have a right to argue with that approach and to tell us so.

Thank you again for your input. A strong OxVox needs positive criticism and input from its members where necessary. Am happy to chat more and if you email me I will gladly pass on my number.

Paul
 
RyanioBirdio said:
I’ll take that, since you’re quoting me.

Absolutely zero implications from me that anybody on the committee has benefitted from the stadium project to date.

There are, however, people on the committee with experience and expertise in development, specifically in and around the area where the stadium is intended to be built. If they were to be involved in the project in any way at any later stage once construction (hopefully) begins - whether it be any sort of formal consultation, recommendations of local companies or tradespeople, or any professional capacity what so ever - it would be important that this be declared as and when it occurred.

As for implications that anybody is definitively “going” to benefit from the stadium, that’s certainly not anything I have implied on this thread.

Hope this clears up my comments. I accept the assurances of the committee.
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Hi Ryan

I appreciate you clarifying your point but with the greatest of respect that’s not what you originally posted or insinuated. What you did post was enough to get several posters questioning our integrity and demanding answers.

Now that the question is out there I will make it simple. The developer Ryan mentions is me. I have a company that does residential development across Oxfordshire. I have never made a secret of that and I have in fact mentioned it before in updates but to make the leap from that to stadium building is almost laughable. We would not be moving in until 2036 if my small team were involved! More importantly (for me at any rate) I would make much less money by not doing my own developments.

Once again I will say, we have ZERO financial gain in the stadium project and have had no discussions on any work once the build is under way. Residential builders do not sneak off and build stadiums in their spare time.

I don't resent the question being asked, transparency is important, but maybe we can just consider the implications of our wording a little before we throw things out there without asking us the question first. We are just supporters trying to do our best for the club we love.

Hope that clears things up and thank you for making your point easier to address.

Paul
 
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Paul P said:
Hi Ryan

I appreciate you clarifying your point but with the greatest of respect that’s not what you originally posted or insinuated. What you did post was enough to get several posters questioning our integrity and demanding answers.

Now that the question is out there I will make it simple. The developer Ryan mentions is me. I have a company that does residential development across Oxfordshire. I have never made a secret of that and I have in fact mentioned it before in updates but to make the leap from that to stadium building is almost laughable. We would not be moving in until 2036 if my small team were involved! More importantly (for me at any rate) I would make much less money by not doing my own developments.

Once again I will say, we have ZERO financial gain in the stadium project and have had no discussions on any work once the build is under way. Residential builders do not sneak off and build stadiums in their spare time.

I don't resent the question be asked, transparency is important, but maybe we can just consider the implications of our wording a little before we throw things out there without asking us the question first. We are just supporters trying to do our best for the club we love.

Hope that clears things up and thank you for making your point easier to address.

Paul
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Hi Paul,

I take your comments on board and appreciate your clarifications. I would also echo your caution and ask that others be as mindful of their own choice of words moving forward as is being asked of me. What people actually say, regardless of what anyone thinks they mean, is very important when certain legal terms start being chucked around.

As far as OxVox goes, while it goes without saying that the majority of people appreciate the work that committee members put in, I think it would be fair to say that there has been a fair bit of uncertainty building over a number of months now, which in recent weeks has started to morph into frustration. There is a perceived lack of impetus being shown regarding any issues that aren’t based around the stadium.

Although it’s patently obvious that the stadium situation is critical and of enormous significance, there are other issues of real importance to the membership and wider supporter base. The lack of any sort of fans’ forum, as promised by the club a full year ago, is wholly unacceptable. There is absolutely no justification for this sort of delay and it’s becoming increasingly apparent that the club is making a concerted effort to avoid engaging with its “customers”. Tim Williams is seemingly happy to go on third party podcasts and talk about himself, but he won’t even do a sit down with Radio Oxford to answer questions sent in from fans for 20 minutes, let alone sit at a table in front of 50-odd people for an hour. They are actively turning their noses up at people.

I am sure that this is something the committee has brought up with the club several times, but at this point it is clear that asking simply isn’t cutting it. If OxVox does not have the ability to make the club take it seriously, or rather if the club does not respect the trust or its members enough to do anything more than waft it away, perhaps its condemnation needs to be a little firmer. I think there is a growing feeling, whether you believe it’s fair or not, that the dynamic between the club and OxVox is far too lopsided. What people are told, and what they see and feel, aren’t aligned at present.

A lot has happened since people last got to speak to the people who matter. We are weeks, possibly even days away from planning application going in for a stadium that we are regularly told is going to define whether or not the club exists in less than three years, and we know almost nothing. We haven’t heard a peep from any major shareholder of the football club in two full years, despite the fact that these people are presumably the ones funding it all, and the people employed to run things on the ground appear to actively loathe the idea of communicating with the same people they are happy to let fight for it on their behalf.

There are some seriously big questions that need answering. What happens if there is not a stadium ready to go in just 2.5 years, regardless of why or whose fault that would be? Has Oxford United held even informal discussions with any other EFL club - MK Dons, for example - about potentially ground sharing on a temporary basis? If not, at what point would they have to acknowledge and start preparing for the possibility? How much notice would other clubs insist on prior to commencement of a joint-tenancy? We almost certainly can’t just strike a deal a few months before moving in. The revenue deficit would be enormous between reduced crowds and reduced commercial income. Have they even looked at these potential figures? Has the EFL been asking these questions? If so, what have they been told? If not, are we sure they’ll be okay with the club just packing its bags and moving to another county for an unspecified amount of time?

The timeframe is incredibly tight. I have barely commented on the stadium situation publicly because I have a link to someone who is involved in certain aspects of the process. Aside from confidence or confidentiality I have been wary of posting anything that could give our watching NIMBY friends any ammunition that could harm the club’s cause or give them any extra encouragement, but I think it would be fair (and safe) for me to say that some of the complexities of the triangle are deceptively large. It’s really important that there is an opportunity for people to ask questions, because being able to publicly table concerns and get questions like the above on the public record is how people are held to account. The people who need to answer those questions know this, of course, which in my opinion is exactly why they don’t want to do so.

I don’t expect a detailed reply, or necessarily any reply, but given the past few days is the most publicly visible the committee has been in a very long time, I felt this needed putting across. While I have seen the requests for people to email the trust with any concerns, which most of the time may indeed be the best way for all involved, I think that in this particular case it’s no bad thing for some of these points to be addressed in a more open manner.

Thanks, and hopefully you can take a few of these concerns forward and ask some of these questions when you next get the opportunity, if you haven’t already. I’m sure that many members would be extremely keen to know the answer to some of them.

(Sorry @SteMerritt)
 
RyanioBirdio said:
I don’t expect a detailed reply, or necessarily any reply, but given the past few days is the most publicly visible the committee has been in a very long time, I felt this needed putting across. While I have seen the requests for people to email the trust with any concerns, which most of the time may indeed be the best way for all involved, I think that in this particular case it’s no bad thing for some of these points to be addressed in a more open manner.
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I've lost count of the times I, and other committee members and OxVox members, have been outside the ground in the last few years, and increasingly over the last 12/18 months or so. Wearing hi-viz vests with OxVox emblazoned on them, with a couple of flag banners saying "Join OxVox", trying to get people to sign petitions, encouraging them to contact their councillors or complete council surveys.

Social media can be a really useful tool for spreading the word far and wide, but it also allows for things that really aren't true to gain traction.
 
SiHath said:
I've lost count of the times I, and other committee members and OxVox members, have been outside the ground in the last few years, and increasingly over the last 12/18 months or so. Wearing hi-viz vests with OxVox emblazoned on them, with a couple of flag banners saying "Join OxVox", trying to get people to sign petitions, encouraging them to contact their councillors or complete council surveys.

Social media can be a really useful tool for spreading the word far and wide, but it also allows for things that really aren't true to gain traction.
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As I stated in my post to Paul, a concern expressed by a number of people (not just me) is that anything that isn’t stadium based doesn’t get adequate attention or feedback, if any. There have been a number of concerns expressed on here for months, including a number of posts tagging in the trust by people looking to gain its attention over the last couple of weeks, that have garnered no response or acknowledgement at all.

The work that OxVox has done on the stadium drive is well-documented and largely appreciated. Responding to someone essentially saying “a lot of people are frustrated by the perception that there is a lack of non-stadium issues being addressed” by talking about stadium surveys and emailing councillors about the stadium is kind of missing the point.

As for social media and “traction”, one way to ensure that flames aren’t stamped out is to keep fanning them into a new week after people have poured water on them.
 
SiHath said:
I've lost count of the times I, and other committee members and OxVox members, have been outside the ground in the last few years, and increasingly over the last 12/18 months or so. Wearing hi-viz vests with OxVox emblazoned on them, with a couple of flag banners saying "Join OxVox", trying to get people to sign petitions, encouraging them to contact their councillors or complete council surveys.

Social media can be a really useful tool for spreading the word far and wide, but it also allows for things that really aren't true to gain traction.
Click to expand...

While i can understand the defensive nature of your reply, considering the scrutiny OxVox are coming under; i think OxVox would gain more traction and support from those on here, if some of the pertinent questions and observations made by Ryan were addressed.

You have completely overlooked a considered and well put together post and focused on a matter that is largely irrelevant in the broader picture of our club.
 
ECYellow said:
While i can understand the defensive nature of your reply, considering the scrutiny OxVox are coming under; i think OxVox would gain more traction and support from those on here, if some of the pertinent questions and observations made by Ryan were addressed.

You have completely overlooked a considered and well put together post and focused on a matter that is largely irrelevant in the broader picture of our club.
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Hi ECYellow

As Paul had addressed the question in his reply (see below), my reply was more specific about lack of OxVox visibility. I'm approachable, we're all approachable, I've had a fan speak to me in the pub about an issue with their broken seat. We got it fixed.

:

d) Michael North, Sue and the wonderful match day stall staff

We believe that the matchday stalls and the people that volunteer to run them are an important part of the Club, adding a fan-led positive to the matchday experience, while raising substantial funds for the Oxford United in the Community Trust. We discussed this with Adam and urged the Club to ensure they can continue. While we understand there are issues to navigate regarding what can be sold at the club, the complexity of our licence agreement, and some branding issues, we stressed that it was vital not to allow this important part of our community to be brushed aside. Stopping to chat with Michael and the team is a part of the match day ritual for many of us and Adam understood our point and positive discussions have begun. We will keep up to date with those and hope to keep making progress that works for all.

That was the extract. It was sent months ago and we have been working on the situation ever since. I speak to Micheal at most games and we emailed last week. We have a meeting set with Adam Benson next week at which it is top of our list. We are being neither silent or soft on it.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Hi Paul,

I take your comments on board and appreciate your clarifications. I would also echo your caution and ask that others be as mindful of their own choice of words moving forward as is being asked of me. What people actually say, regardless of what anyone thinks they mean, is very important when certain legal terms start being chucked around.

As far as OxVox goes, while it goes without saying that the majority of people appreciate the work that committee members put in, I think it would be fair to say that there has been a fair bit of uncertainty building over a number of months now, which in recent weeks has started to morph into frustration. There is a perceived lack of impetus being shown regarding any issues that aren’t based around the stadium.

Although it’s patently obvious that the stadium situation is critical and of enormous significance, there are other issues of real importance to the membership and wider supporter base. The lack of any sort of fans’ forum, as promised by the club a full year ago, is wholly unacceptable. There is absolutely no justification for this sort of delay and it’s becoming increasingly apparent that the club is making a concerted effort to avoid engaging with its “customers”. Tim Williams is seemingly happy to go on third party podcasts and talk about himself, but he won’t even do a sit down with Radio Oxford to answer questions sent in from fans for 20 minutes, let alone sit at a table in front of 50-odd people for an hour. They are actively turning their noses up at people.

I am sure that this is something the committee has brought up with the club several times, but at this point it is clear that asking simply isn’t cutting it. If OxVox does not have the ability to make the club take it seriously, or rather if the club does not respect the trust or its members enough to do anything more than waft it away, perhaps its condemnation needs to be a little firmer. I think there is a growing feeling, whether you believe it’s fair or not, that the dynamic between the club and OxVox is far too lopsided. What people are told, and what they see and feel, aren’t aligned at present.

A lot has happened since people last got to speak to the people who matter. We are weeks, possibly even days away from planning application going in for a stadium that we are regularly told is going to define whether or not the club exists in less than three years, and we know almost nothing. We haven’t heard a peep from any major shareholder of the football club in two full years, despite the fact that these people are presumably the ones funding it all, and the people employed to run things on the ground appear to actively loathe the idea of communicating with the same people they are happy to let fight for it on their behalf.

There are some seriously big questions that need answering. What happens if there is not a stadium ready to go in just 2.5 years, regardless of why or whose fault that would be? Has Oxford United held even informal discussions with any other EFL club - MK Dons, for example - about potentially ground sharing on a temporary basis? If not, at what point would they have to acknowledge and start preparing for the possibility? How much notice would other clubs insist on prior to commencement of a joint-tenancy? We almost certainly can’t just strike a deal a few months before moving in. The revenue deficit would be enormous between reduced crowds and reduced commercial income. Have they even looked at these potential figures? Has the EFL been asking these questions? If so, what have they been told? If not, are we sure they’ll be okay with the club just packing its bags and moving to another county for an unspecified amount of time?

The timeframe is incredibly tight. I have barely commented on the stadium situation publicly because I have a link to someone who is involved in certain aspects of the process. Aside from confidence or confidentiality I have been wary of posting anything that could give our watching NIMBY friends any ammunition that could harm the club’s cause or give them any extra encouragement, but I think it would be fair (and safe) for me to say that some of the complexities of the triangle are deceptively large. It’s really important that there is an opportunity for people to ask questions, because being able to publicly table concerns and get questions like the above on the public record is how people are held to account. The people who need to answer those questions know this, of course, which in my opinion is exactly why they don’t want to do so.

I don’t expect a detailed reply, or necessarily any reply, but given the past few days is the most publicly visible the committee has been in a very long time, I felt this needed putting across. While I have seen the requests for people to email the trust with any concerns, which most of the time may indeed be the best way for all involved, I think that in this particular case it’s no bad thing for some of these points to be addressed in a more open manner.

Thanks, and hopefully you can take a few of these concerns forward and ask some of these questions when you next get the opportunity, if you haven’t already. I’m sure that many members would be extremely keen to know the answer to some of them.

(Sorry @SteMerritt)
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* I wrote this before I realised Si Hath had posted.


Thanks Ryan

I would preface what I say by saying again that if anyone has these perfectly reasonable questions they could contact us directly. To suggest (with no malice I fully appreciate) that this is the most vocal/accessible we have been in a long time, so you are taking the chance to ask question does ignore that fact that anyone could emailed OxVox at any time and on any subject. We/I have been outside multiple games all last season and this, engaging with fans and asking question. I have also offered my email and phone number. Not a jibe, just pointing out the difficult position our end.

All the points your raise a valid ones and all have or are being addressed.

Fans forums have been discussed and we (along with OUSP) are taking the lead on them. A present the discussion is for two a year. One to be Grant/Tim/Niall/Adam level and focus on the club governance, communication etc and one with the Manager and perhaps some playing staff.
These discussions should be moved forward in the meeting with Adam but we are pressing for more and keen to make sure that we do get a full compliment, including Grant and Tim. I think we have already updated on this but worth pointing out again. I will make sure all of this is in the meeting update.

Communication has been a constant struggle with the club during my entire time at OxVox. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, never really perfect. I know some may assume a cosy relationship between the club and OxVox but if anyone had access to my inbox they would know better. There have been some very strong words exchanged. That being said, we still recognise the work being done to progress our club and maintain a working relationship.

I agree the loss of the Five Minute Fans Forum seems counter productive and I have already spoken to Jerome and they are happy to reinstate. This is also on the list for our meeting.

Our club is going through some major changes and as I pointed out in a previous update, it is important that as we strive to make ourselves financially sustainable and push for a Championship spot, that we do not loose our identity as a community club. I can promise everyone that we are fighting hard for that.

Paul
 
Will this season be a 1st where we never wear our actual away kit?

Even Jerome expected us to wear the AC Milan kit tonight but we have opted for the blue again.
 
I think he just said the 'proper' second kit will be worn at Peterborough on Saturday. Pity, because we could quite easily wear yellow.
 
MJB said:
With the Gold package you got to “meet with Liam Manning ahead of kick-off for a 10-minute Q&A”.

With the slightly cheaper Silver package, you got 20 minutes.
Click to expand...

With the Bronze package, you may or may not have got a Zoom call.
 
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