International News Immigration

Eric Blair said:
Don't ruin it mustard we're almost there ;).

Yep, I get that but I think a disproportionate amount of time, money and emotional energy is spent trying to solve an issue (illegal immigration on small boats) which doesn't have that much of an economic impact on the country as compared to the scandalous ripping all of us off through QE and the downgrading of public services through austerity. Things like homelessness and drug addiction (which again you have rightly raised as massive issues for the UK) need well funded services to deal with these very complex cases. The government has failed to provide this. To quote John Lydon - ever get the feeling you've been ripped off? We all have.

Anyway, big picture - I'm saying that you, me and @QR basically agree. Just need @Essexyellows now and we are golden.
Click to expand...
I get that, and I agree we're all being f****d from every angle in countless different ways every day by this government, but that shouldn't mean illegal immigration is seen as a lesser issue - it has far larger consequences than just financial.

I think my point can be summarised by this. The UK Government announced in 2022 it would be spending £2billion over three years on tackling UK homelessness and rough sleeping. That breaks down to around £640m a year. In 2023 alone, the UK Government spent over £3billion just on housing those arriving on boats. It's no mystery why people are annoyed, why are those arriving on boats treated better than those falling on hard times that are already here? It's just wrong.

But yes, we do pretty much agree!
 
Just to be clear, under International law, that the UK signs up to, anyone crossing the channel in a boat only becomes an illegal immigrant if they do not immediately hand themselves over to the authorities.

Which means that these thousands who are making the crossing are legal. The problem is not about them arriving, it's about the desperately inadequate provisions in place to process their asylum applications. As a consequence we are having to hold and house people for years at a huge cost to everyone.

For a fraction of the cost of the Rwanda deal we could process all claims within weeks and either then allow legitimate asylum cases to be granted and having these people able to then work and contribute to society, or to be legally deported to their home country or an alternative safe country.

The legislation already existed to deal with this, but rather than funding it appropriately, our Government has decided to spend billions holding people in hotels and now sending a tiny percentage to Rwanda. At the same time, and in order to justify this wring decision, they have ignored international and humanitarian law, and used demeaning and incendiary language that has ignited the support of the far right and hugely increased racial tensions in a generally welcoming and tolerant country.

The actions of the Tories are not only those of complete incompetence but also cruel and shameful.
 
Scotchegg said:
Just to be clear, under International law, that the UK signs up to, anyone crossing the channel in a boat only becomes an illegal immigrant if they do not immediately hand themselves over to the authorities.

Which means that these thousands who are making the crossing are legal. The problem is not about them arriving, it's about the desperately inadequate provisions in place to process their asylum applications. As a consequence we are having to hold and house people for years at a huge cost to everyone.

For a fraction of the cost of the Rwanda deal we could process all claims within weeks and either then allow legitimate asylum cases to be granted and having these people able to then work and contribute to society, or to be legally deported to their home country or an alternative safe country.

The legislation already existed to deal with this, but rather than funding it appropriately, our Government has decided to spend billions holding people in hotels and now sending a tiny percentage to Rwanda. At the same time, and in order to justify this wring decision, they have ignored international and humanitarian law, and used demeaning and incendiary language that has ignited the support of the far right and hugely increased racial tensions in a generally welcoming and tolerant country.

The actions of the Tories are not only those of complete incompetence but also cruel and shameful.
Click to expand...
That's a good point and one I agree with massively.

Someone can be really hard line and zero tolerance on immigration if they want to be and still be anti-Rwanda policy as it is incompetent and wasteful
 
Eric Blair said:
That's a good point and one I agree with massively.

Someone can be really hard line and zero tolerance on immigration if they want to be and still be anti-Rwanda policy as it is incompetent and wasteful
Click to expand...

The immigration system is broken and needs a massive overhaul. But the money needed to do that is being wasted on a media stunt.
 
MustardYellow said:
I get that, and I agree we're all being f****d from every angle in countless different ways every day by this government, but that shouldn't mean illegal immigration is seen as a lesser issue - it has far larger consequences than just financial.

I think my point can be summarised by this. The UK Government announced in 2022 it would be spending £2billion over three years on tackling UK homelessness and rough sleeping. That breaks down to around £640m a year. In 2023 alone, the UK Government spent over £3billion just on housing those arriving on boats. It's no mystery why people are annoyed, why are those arriving on boats treated better than those falling on hard times that are already here? It's just wrong.

But yes, we do pretty much agree!
Click to expand...
I'd go further and say not only do we mainly agree but we also agree with @QR . The silence of @Essexyellows I am taking as agreement (no holes in my thinking there).

We're all done here and I'm now going over to the middle east to sort that out.
 
Scotchegg said:
Just to be clear, under International law, that the UK signs up to, anyone crossing the channel in a boat only becomes an illegal immigrant if they do not immediately hand themselves over to the authorities.

Which means that these thousands who are making the crossing are legal. The problem is not about them arriving, it's about the desperately inadequate provisions in place to process their asylum applications. As a consequence we are having to hold and house people for years at a huge cost to everyone.

For a fraction of the cost of the Rwanda deal we could process all claims within weeks and either then allow legitimate asylum cases to be granted and having these people able to then work and contribute to society, or to be legally deported to their home country or an alternative safe country.

The legislation already existed to deal with this, but rather than funding it appropriately, our Government has decided to spend billions holding people in hotels and now sending a tiny percentage to Rwanda. At the same time, and in order to justify this wring decision, they have ignored international and humanitarian law, and used demeaning and incendiary language that has ignited the support of the far right and hugely increased racial tensions in a generally welcoming and tolerant country.

The actions of the Tories are not only those of complete incompetence but also cruel and shameful.
Click to expand...
Your statement that they are all legal migrants has been disproved a couple of times on this thread already, albeit you're not always the one spreading the misinformation.

I'm not going through it again. Read the Immigration Act 1971 and associated guidance.
 
Scotchegg said:
Just to be clear, under International law, that the UK signs up to, anyone crossing the channel in a boat only becomes an illegal immigrant if they do not immediately hand themselves over to the authorities.

Which means that these thousands who are making the crossing are legal. The problem is not about them arriving, it's about the desperately inadequate provisions in place to process their asylum applications. As a consequence we are having to hold and house people for years at a huge cost to everyone.

For a fraction of the cost of the Rwanda deal we could process all claims within weeks and either then allow legitimate asylum cases to be granted and having these people able to then work and contribute to society, or to be legally deported to their home country or an alternative safe country.

The legislation already existed to deal with this, but rather than funding it appropriately, our Government has decided to spend billions holding people in hotels and now sending a tiny percentage to Rwanda. At the same time, and in order to justify this wring decision, they have ignored international and humanitarian law, and used demeaning and incendiary language that has ignited the support of the far right and hugely increased racial tensions in a generally welcoming and tolerant country.

The actions of the Tories are not only those of complete incompetence but also cruel and shameful.
Click to expand...
Legally true, but let's not get into that... we've had this discussion in the Israel/Gaza thread! Something merely being a law doesn't mean it isn't silly. Apply this logic to anything else and you see how silly it is - a murderer isn't actually a murderer as long as he let's the authorities know he murdered someone... breaking into someone's house doesn't legally count as a home invasion as long as after you've bashed the door down you let the owners of the home know you're there.... :unsure:

What you say is largely true, the system should 100% be quicker. All claims should be resolved within a couple of months. That doesn't solve the issue of people trying to get here via those methods, though.

On BBC Newsnight earlier this week they had an Iranian on who arrived via dinghy talking about the experience, explaining how he and his fellow 'travellers' had 'no other option' but to come to the UK for refuge. It transpired that he was actually offered asylum in Greece, but decided not to take it because he didn't want to stay in a camp while he was processed. And this is the issue - they come here because of the financial benefits of being here. In essence, being a asylum claimant is far more cushty and financially rewarding in the UK that it is elsewhere. It has nothing to do with safety or oppression. Stop those rewards and you stop a lot of the boats.
 
MustardYellow said:
Apply this logic to anything else and you see how silly it is - a murderer isn't actually a murderer as long as he let's the authorities know he murdered someone... breaking into someone's house doesn't legally count as a home invasion as long as after you've bashed the door down you let the owners of the home know you're there.... :unsure:
Click to expand...

There is no logic there only nonsense.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Your statement that they are all legal migrants has been disproved a couple of times on this thread already, albeit you're not always the one spreading the misinformation.

I'm not going through it again. Read the Immigration Act 1971 and associated guidance.
Click to expand...
On the plus side if I said to you and @Scotchegg that I come from a country called the Democratic Republic of Congo which is geographically located next door to Rwanda, at least neither of you would ask me whether the Congo is in Rwanda. So you're both better informed then the Government Minister.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Your statement that they are all legal migrants has been disproved a couple of times on this thread already, albeit you're not always the one spreading the misinformation.

I'm not going through it again. Read the Immigration Act 1971 and associated guidance.
Click to expand...

We're in a position where we are both right. It is illegal to arrive without a visa unless you claim asylum at which point you are protected under International law, the UK has continued to sign up to and supports.

Screenshot_20240426_093702_Google.jpg
 
Problem is that its not in many, I'd say most cases, destitute fleeing from war torn countries with no options but criminally funded routes where they are fully briefed as to what to say to get asylum/ get into the system then pretty much disappear into the illegal workers world.
Integration just isn't happening as the numbers coming over are too large are economic , and are bought up in a completely different culture .
 
Thomas/Brock/Jones said:
Problem is that its not in many, I'd say most cases, destitute fleeing from war torn countries with no options but criminally funded routes where they are fully briefed as to what to say to get asylum/ get into the system then pretty much disappear into the illegal workers world.
Integration just isn't happening as the numbers coming over are too large are economic , and are bought up in a completely different culture .
Click to expand...
Exactly this. It stops becoming about safety and persecution when rather than just taking your family to the closest safe place you choose to travel alone half way across the world through countless safe countries to the place that conveniently offers you one of the best financial packages as an 'asylum seeker'.

On your point of integration, just yesterday we had an asylum seeker from Tunisia (why are we accepting asylum seekers from f*****g Tunisia?!?!) convicted of publicly showing support for Hamas on the streets of London. We also had a Moroccan 'asylum seeker' (again, why are we accepting asylum seekers from f*****g Morocco?!?!) convicted of stabbing an elderly man to death whilst chanting 'Allahu Akbar'. He claimed it was for Islam and the people of Gaza, whilst also claiming he wanted more victims. He had travelled from Morocco to Spain in 2007 and spent time in 13 different European countries before arriving in Britain. He spent 13 years living in Italy, Germany - where he was denied asylum - and Spain, before arriving in Middlesborough by ferry from the Netherlands in 2020. He claimed asylum and spent the next three years living in a hotel in Hull and then state-funded accommodation in a terraced house in Hartlepool.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom