Looks like Charlie has got his wish.

[Jerome'SAle]

Charlie was shown to be wrong on virtually every 'fact' he claimed and this top 5 shite is just the same.

He was right about a lot of stuff too

 

[Upthecowboys]

Charlie is quite clearly trying to wind up a few posters on here and it is working, with comments about us having a 'Top 5 budget' and 'putting one over our friends down south' etc. No point getting your knickers in a twist whether it is professional for him to say that or not, whether it is professional or not really isn't our concern. I never liked the way he came across on this forum, and on here made a couple real bloopers which showed he didn't know as much as possibly he thought he did.

Most of us on this thread have been following what is happening in Sunderland and of course we have listened to what Tiger has said. So which set of fans do you think feel more bought in to their new owners? Which set of fans has a clearer idea of where additional funds may come from to get them to their respective next level?

Pains me to say it but I wish Tiger and his team were as open with the Oxford fans as CM & DS have been with Sunderland fans from the start. Tiger's first press conference seems shambolic compared to that of SD / CM, we are still not much clearer as to what Tiger's plans are. It seems that there is a good sponsorship deal in place, but what about additional investment? Does anyone think Tiger personally has the funds to sustain us as a top 5 Div 1 / lower level championship team? From a little basic research on-line I don't think he does, so what is the plan?

Charlie may have got his wish and may be a bit of an a**e, but just look at how CM / SD are engaging with their fan base and explaining their plans to what Tiger is doing.

I'll put my tin hat on..

 

[MarkG]

Another question. If Donald is to stay majority shareholder at Sunderland, why would Sartori invest money if he doesn't have control, and how would they determine who is putting money in? Or would it be as a loan bearing interest?

 

[Deleted member 462]

Charlie is quite clearly trying to wind up a few posters on here and it is working, with comments about us having a 'Top 5 budget' and 'putting one over our friends down south' etc. No point getting your knickers in a twist whether it is professional for him to say that or not, whether it is professional or not really isn't our concern. I never liked the way he came across on this forum, and on here made a couple real bloopers which showed he didn't know as much as possibly he thought he did.

Most of us on this thread have been following what is happening in Sunderland and of course we have listened to what Tiger has said. So which set of fans do you think feel more bought in to their new owners? Which set of fans has a clearer idea of where additional funds may come from to get them to their respective next level?

Pains me to say it but I wish Tiger and his team were as open with the Oxford fans as CM & DS have been with Sunderland fans from the start. Tiger's first press conference seems shambolic compared to that of SD / CM, we are still not much clearer as to what Tiger's plans are. It seems that there is a good sponsorship deal in place, but what about additional investment? Does anyone think Tiger personally has the funds to sustain us as a top 5 Div 1 / lower level championship team? From a little basic research on-line I don't think he does, so what is the plan?

Charlie may have got his wish and may be a bit of an a**e, but just look at how CM / SD are engaging with their fan base and explaining their plans to what Tiger is doing.

I'll put my tin hat on..

No need for a tin hat! I've been following this thread (and other similar ones) and think you've got it about right.

I don't like the way Charlie conducts himself and I don't like his money-motivated reasons for jumping ship to SAFC, BUT his and Stewart's engagement with their new fan base is streets ahead of Tiger's with ours. OK, the Mackems are clearly mugs for lapping up some of the crap Charlie is pushing - his 'genuine' dislike of arrogant Newcastle being the biggest belly laugh - but they like what they hear and seem to be getting behind the new ownership team.

I'm sure Charlie pops on here occasionally and is delighted with the way things are going, particularly our reaction to some of his barbed comments.

Despite all the mackem a**e kissing have they really told them any more than we have ?

Initial investment will be stewart (tiger)

Look to bring in more investment especially when at higher level.(sartori/ undisclosed)

Delayed up front payment to release funds immediately

Return to the championship and possibly premiership.

Get back to a model of using academy and a decent young manager, who can get the most out of players at the right price.

Apart from the slagging off of the rivals and us, I think they have pretty much matched identically what tiger has said and done so far

 

[MarkG]

It's more the style of engagement than the firmness (or otherwise) of actual plans. Charlie's utterings might be suspect, but they're finding an audience. Tiger's saying very little.

Lots of what is being said of course appeals, that's PR for you. It seems like everything that has worked at our club or not worked has been taken notice of and put into their business plan.

Some of the talk is great, there's a long article talking about Dortmund's revitalisation in recent years, fan engagement and community work with local teams / lending players to local sides in a traditional working class area, and how that can work for Sunderland. Also talk of their academy poaching attracting he best youngsters from other clubs in the area - a bit like Elias/ Reading?

Other bits I'm not so sure - Donald says he wants players to come to the club directly rather than through agents. That may work at a village team, but every player at Championship level should have a pro-agent rather than using their father/ brother etc to get the best deal for the player.

 

[Deleted member 462]

It's more the style of engagement than the firmness (or otherwise) of actual plans. Charlie's utterings might be suspect, but they're finding an audience. Tiger's saying very little.

I get what ur saying, but I’d still take actions over words. So far his only real judgeable involvement is a decent manager appointment, two decent signings and keeping Eastwood. Lots of people have given us 5 year plans, budgets and targets and more often than not it just disappoints as while they are what everyone wants to hear it’s a lot harder to deliver them in reality or takes a bit longer.

For example A wise pr man once promised us a brand new state of the art stadium at WE, even agreed a deal on the bit of land. While lovely and just what we all wanted to hear, it turned out that no amount of money or takeover could have delivered it.

 

[Upthecowboys]

Despite all the mackem a**e kissing have they really told them any more than we have ?

Initial investment will be stewart (tiger)

Look to bring in more investment especially when at higher level.(sartori/ undisclosed)

Delayed up front payment to release funds immediately

Return to the championship and possibly premiership.

Get back to a model of using academy and a decent young manager, who can get the most out of players at the right price.

Apart from the slagging off of the rivals and us, I think they have pretty much matched identically what tiger has said and done so far

Definitely think there are a lot of sound bytes in what Charlie says.

I guess I'd feel more comfortable if I knew the answer to a couple of key questions:-

1) Apart from the money owed to DE for upcoming transfer payments, and any monies we may end up paying as a result of the disputed service charges were there really no other debts associated to OUFC at the time Tiger took over? I really hope so, as pre DE we weren't we £8-10 million in debt etc? I don't think we have had a clear answer on that, whilst some people on here have claimed that is exactly the case. It should be very easy for Tiger to clarify. (SD has been very clear with this re Sunderland)

2) Where is additional investment going to come from? Or can Tiger assure the fan base he has more funds than DE to take us forward etc. (SD clearly speaking to JS who is well connected in the football world, that is where some of Sunderland's additional funding may come from etc)

The Singha sponsorship is interesting. I was really impressed with how Lionstrust interacted with the club, they seemed like a very good main sponsor (felt exactly the same about Bridle). Singha may be a bigger name, if it happens how much more is that sponsorship worth & will they interact as well with the fans as Lionstrust did etc?

Now as a fan of course I don't expect to know the ins and outs of every contract signed, but some clearer updates on a couple of significant questions would help some of us more cynical fans.

 

[m]

PR.

f*****g PR.

It bewilders me that (seemingly) so many of our fans seem to be need to be told something or anything, constantly. Doesn't seem to matter if it's true or not, as long as an announcement is made.

Note: This is a general expression of bewilderment and not particularly inspired by any one individual/post/event.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The proof of the pudding is going to be in the eating. Never mind what is said beforehand, I'll go by the quality and depth of the squad once we are about to kick off the new season.

 

[Deleted member 462]

Despite all the mackem a**e kissing have they really told them any more than we have ?

Initial investment will be stewart (tiger)

Look to bring in more investment especially when at higher level.(sartori/ undisclosed)

Delayed up front payment to release funds immediately

Return to the championship and possibly premiership.

Get back to a model of using academy and a decent young manager, who can get the most out of players at the right price.

Apart from the slagging off of the rivals and us, I think they have pretty much matched identically what tiger has said and done so far

Definitely think there are a lot of sound bytes in what Charlie says.

I guess I'd feel more comfortable if I knew the answer to a couple of key questions:-

1) Apart from the money owed to DE for upcoming transfer payments, and any monies we may end up paying as a result of the disputed service charges were there really no other debts associated to OUFC at the time Tiger took over? I really hope so, as pre DE we weren't we £8-10 million in debt etc? I don't think we have had a clear answer on that, whilst some people on here have claimed that is exactly the case. It should be very easy for Tiger to clarify. (SD has been very clear with this re Sunderland)

2) Where is additional investment going to come from? Or can Tiger assure the fan base he has more funds than DE to take us forward etc. (SD clearly speaking to JS who is well connected in the football world, that is where some of Sunderland's additional funding may come from etc)

The Singha sponsorship is interesting. I was really impressed with how Lionstrust interacted with the club, they seemed like a very good main sponsor (felt exactly the same about Bridle). Singha may be a bigger name, if it happens how much more is that sponsorship worth & will they interact as well with the fans as Lionstrust did etc?

Now as a fan of course I don't expect to know the ins and outs of every contract signed, but some clearer updates on a couple of significant questions would help some of us more cynical fans.

I think that’s a fair assessment, it’s about people feeling comfortable, some won’t need as much reassurance, others want to know every detail so they are before they are happy. Somewhere in between is probably ideal, informing fans what they need to know, or at least the things that they think they need to know while delivering in reality.

For me I’d far rather we under promised and over achieved than the other way around. In the long term It leaves a better atmosphere around the club. if u are over achieving a lot of the worries people had initially will disappear anyway. If ur not meeting or delivering targets like a top six budget claim, or championship in 3 years, people will call u up on it and use it as a stick to beat u even if ur actually doing ok, or are only slightly behind that target

 

[Upthecowboys]

PR.

f*****g PR.

It bewilders me that (seemingly) so many of our fans seem to be need to be told something or anything, constantly. Doesn't seem to matter if it's true or not, as long as an announcement is made.

Note: This is a general expression of bewilderment and not particularly inspired by any one individual/post/event.

I think most sensible fans realise the limit to what we should expect to know and what we would like to know. But likewise I think there are some questions / areas that we should have had more specific updates on from the club.

 

[horseman]

Don't care what the budget is or is meant to be, all i care about is the players take pride in playing for the club,perform to the best of their ability and that the management etc set out to obtain auto promotion.
i care not who goes up with us or has a bigger bank balance

 

[stokeu]

Don't care what the budget is or is meant to be,perform to the best of their ability

and therein lies the issue, the bigger the budget, the better the player's ability. Assemble a few by a splash of cash and you win the league

 

[Deleted member 222]

and therein lies the issue, the bigger the budget, the better the player's ability. Assemble a few by a splash of cash and you win the league

Not sure Bury fans agree.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Not sure Bury fans agree.

Exactly. While it is easier to win a league (any league in the world) if you are the richest team in it, it is by no means a given. It's quite possible to buy a load of decent players and absolutely fail to make much of a team out of them. On the flip side, a good manager can take a bunch of less expensive players and make a team out them (Accrington). More difficult though, obviously!

 

[Foley]

I get what ur saying, but I’d still take actions over words. So far his only real judgeable involvement is a decent manager appointment, two decent signings and keeping Eastwood. Lots of people have given us 5 year plans, budgets and targets and more often than not it just disappoints as while they are what everyone wants to hear it’s a lot harder to deliver them in reality or takes a bit longer.

I don't think it unreasonable that the owner should communicate more openly and effectively than Tiger has done to date. I agree that his decision with regard to Robinson was a good one and clearly the signing of Eastwood was very good.

The U23's and training pitch appear to be positive.

But I am sure that I am not alone is having some concerns. We have no idea of what Tiger's plans are. There has been very little from Oxvox on any discussions with Tiger (unless I have missed something?) There was a lot about E Mails being not very good and Tiger not being in the Country. Tiger was going to meet the lovely Mr Kassam, but I have read nothing since?

I will feel a lot better once we know that KR is happy with the squad he puts together. But some of the strategic plans for Tiger and the club really wouldn't be too much to expect would it? The ground is critical to the future of the Company and this seems to get pushed into the long grass (Kassam has said that he will not now discuss until the new owner beds in. Wasn't the whole point to buy the ground for the community and not being owned by the club owner?)

My biggest concern is that Tiger will not be able to continue to pay for the planned expenditure. Hopefully I am well off the mark, but ....

 

[Gary Baldi]

Sunderland fans are in the anyone but Ellis Short phase, so CMs PR will go down wonders (as it would here if it wasn't CM doing it). Relegation, but the bleeding has stopped and the club feels like it has a focus for the first time in years.

I'd argue they are a bigger basket case than Blackburn or Wigan, but with the potential to win the league in March. Is Ross experienced enough to reset the culture?

 

[Berliner]

Bet we get them the first game of the season at home...

 

[Scotchegg]

Bet we get them the first game of the season at home...

And bet we hammer them!!!

"Charlie, Charlie, what's the score!!"

 

[uptheus]

I don't know why anyone at another club, particularly people in high level roles, has the right to be talking about other teams budgets& probably breaching confidences...................again. Frankly, it's classless.

Not sure Bury fans agree.

But Wigan and Blackburn fans might agree.

Not saying money or the biggest budget guarantees success, but I’m sure it helps in most cases.