National News Sarah Everard

[QR]

No idea, I wasn’t there, nor have I spoken to anyone who was there or read any accounts of anyone that was.
If her actions justified that level of response and it was judged to be proportionate at the time then surely it matters not where it takes place or the event. They’re not going to act any differently at a vigil or a football match. If the officers actions are found to not be proportionate I’m sure they can expect the appropriate sanction.

But isn't this the nub it? No one either protester present or police has explained why this action was proportionate. Given the circumstances and sensitivities the police should have come right out to explain the reason for this use of force against this woman?

 

[Blox21]

Well there at it again in parliament square , a few thousand present, same suspects as yesterday. It will be interesting to see how the old bill handle it today

 

[Blox21]

Not good with links but if your interested subscribe to subject access on you tube who is live

 

[Essexyellows]

You're meant to be helping me understand. Not answering the question isn't helping.

1. The police are allowed to use "legal & reasonable" force proportionate to the threat faced.

2. The officers acted proportionately to whatever the person did and used force to restrain the person.

hope that helps, it`s not difficult really.

 

[Eaststanding]

It was a bandstand in the middle of a park, in the late evening/night time. There were no public order considerations and no indication of unrest. So the police could and should have held back, maintain safety and allow everyone to disburse naturally.

Of course there were some that were intent on causing trouble, but by going in and dragging away people in front of the media, for little more than passive noncompliance, was a bad decision. The Met have been here before, but it's much easier to maintain political and public support when you're steaming in against violent protesters, football fans, black youths etc than it is when you're dragging away a 5ft 2 woman who is there is solidarity for women in fear of attack from men.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see heads roll, and maybe this will change the way all of us are treated by the police. I'd quite like to go to football games and be treated as a lawful decent member of society rather than being policed for what an exception small minority might do.

With respect, neither of us were privy to any intelligence available before last nights vigil/protest so we can’t say what the police knew and whether there were any indications of disorder. Place and time are irrelevant, disorder can happen anywhere at any time. If you don’t like what you saw last night, complain to the Met but I suspect you’ll be pissing in the wind on that one.

 

[Eaststanding]

But isn't this the nub it? No one either protester present or police has explained why this action was proportionate. Given the circumstances and sensitivities the police should have come right out to explain the reason for this use of force against this woman?

Absolutely no need to justify this interaction with the public, and certainly not because you perceive her to be a poor innocent female who was doing no wrong.....Like I said if they were found to have acted inappropriately they’ll be dealt with but like @Scotchegg if you don’t like seeing the police dealing robustly with trouble makers complain to the Met.

 

[QR]

1. The police are allowed to use "legal & reasonable" force proportionate to the threat faced.

2. The officers acted proportionately to whatever the person did and used force to restrain the person.

hope that helps, it`s not difficult really.

Given my question was...

What could have been the action last night that justified two policemen kneeling on a 5 ft 2 woman at a vigil following the death of a women allegedly murdered by a policeman.

... you must know it doesn't help.

 

[Concretebob]

There are reports that some officers trampled on the flowers left at the vigil. This is complete conjecture here, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some feeling at the vigil that the police may have moved in so heavily because the case involves a met officer. That is a theory by the way, not fact.

It's such a sad, sad story.

 

[Eaststanding]

There are reports that some officers trampled on the flowers left at the vigil. This is complete conjecture here, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some feeling at the vigil that the police may have moved in so heavily because the case involves a met officer. That is a theory by the way, not fact.

It's such a sad, sad story.

Even the Met aren’t so out of touch as to deliberately trample on the flowers, whatever the reason. Maybe accidentally during arrests or managing the crowd but if it was deliberate they’d deserve every bit of criticism they get.

 

[BigLad]

There are reports that some officers trampled on the flowers left at the vigil. This is complete conjecture here, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some feeling at the vigil that the police may have moved in so heavily because the case involves a met officer. That is a theory by the way, not fact.

It's such a sad, sad story.

absolute B*****s to even suggest as a theory !

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Not sure that they would have had to trample the flowers *deliberately* to cause offence? They could quite easily have done it accidentally and done so.

The whole thing seems so heavy handed and insensitively dealt with.

 

[Concretebob]

Not sure that they would have had to trample the flowers *deliberately* to cause offence? They could quite easily have done it accidentally and done so.

The whole thing seems so heavy handed and insensitively dealt with.

Wasn't suggesting they did it intentionally, but looking at social media (I know, I know) the met officers trampling on the flowers, be it on purpose or not, was the "turning point"

Sounds like the vigil turned into a bit of a powderkeg.

 

[QR]

Even the Met aren’t so out of touch as to deliberately trample on the flowers, whatever the reason. Maybe accidentally during arrests or managing the crowd but if it was deliberate they’d deserve every bit of criticism they get.

Agreed if they did it wouldn't have been deliberate.

 

[Junior_1]

A genuine question as to what you are suggesting here.
Are white men not supposed to comment on such things?

Does he know Essex Yellows? Is he assuming his colour based on his comments on here?

 

[QR]

Does he know Essex Yellows? Is he assuming his colour based on his comments on here?

I'm pretty sure he's revealed his colour and the sex he presents as on here before.

Of course he's allowed to record his views it's his predictability that I find sad.

 

[Wallop]

The main question for me is what can be done to better protect innocent people. The answer I’m afraid is very little. There will always be psychopaths, terrorists, sexual deviants, schizophrenic people etc. out there and they will be the last ones to adhere to any reactionary rules if they are brought in. All you can do is try to minimize your risk by trying to avoid situations where you might be vulnerable but even that might not be enough if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I’m sure Lee Rigby felt he was in no danger shortly before he was murdered. Harold Shipman’s victims died at the hands of an individual that they would have had total trust in.

I don’t think there are any simple answers here.

 

[unification]

Sarah Everard: What went wrong at the Clapham vigil?

Maintaining public order at protests is one of the hardest jobs in modern policing.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is an excellent summary of the timeline of what went wrong and may answer some of the bickering that my thread has caused (). It’s well worth a read.

Another group group who’ll avoid any criticism but deserve it is social media who needed to push the message that attendance to a vigil was in breach of Covid regulations. Seemingly Reclaim The Streets message wasn’t heeded. The courts also need looking at too - pushing the decision back to the police and organisers only led to confusion.

Anyway, it’ll be sorted soon once great political powerhouse Priti Patel has it on her desk ...

 

[Essexyellows]

Given my question was...

What could have been the action last night that justified two policemen kneeling on a 5 ft 2 woman at a vigil following the death of a women allegedly murdered by a policeman.

... you must know it doesn't help.

Jeez you are hard work.

The person could have been pushing, barging, punching, spitting, resisting arrest, have been carrying a weapon...... the list goes on...... something that led to the police having to forcibly restrain them.

If you don`t break the rules you don`t get nicked is a fairly simple rule of thumb even for people of low IQ.

 

[Scotchegg]

Jeez you are hard work.

The person could have been pushing, barging, punching, spitting, resisting arrest, have been carrying a weapon...... the list goes on...... something that led to the police having to forcibly restrain them.

If you don`t break the rules you don`t get nicked is a fairly simple rule of thumb even for people of low IQ.

The woman shown being arrested has not been charged with pushing, barging, punching, spitting, resisting arrest, carrying an offensive weapon etc. She was given a fixed penalty notice for covid breaches, which I pretty sure doesn't warrant bring forcibly restrained.

 

[QR]

Jeez you are hard work.

The person could have been pushing, barging, punching, spitting, resisting arrest, have been carrying a weapon...... the list goes on...... something that led to the police having to forcibly restrain them.

If you don`t break the rules you don`t get nicked is a fairly simple rule of thumb even for people of low IQ.

Ok thanks so now we wait and see which sickening offence(s) she did commit to merit this response. Gonna be interesting.