National News Rishi Sunak

m said:
f*****g knew Johnny and Barry were up to no good.

Seriously though, why not let others choose, the way that you have?

Everyone has the power to disengage from whatever media they wish.
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Me not caring doesn't effect anyone else, some people caring do. Ie, these Gaza marches have caused huge division, increase in hatred etc. Me not being that bothered by it has zero impact on anything. People caring and getting emotional about Johnny and Barry has a negative effect on the family of Johnny and Barry (who are completely innocent), stigma etc. Again, me not caring has no effect on anything.

Basically, my theory is people should (as a general rule*) mind their own business and not be too bothered by what everyone is is/isn't, may/may not be doing. We'd all be happier for it.

*I say as a general rule because there are of course some things that can be considered a collective issue. Just getting all het-up about things is counter-prodcutive though.
 
bazzer9461 said:
With my name being mentioned there I was starting to wonder whether the young man was referring to me? Well as he wasn’t and it’s like saying Joe Bloggs then I should be ok, but as for dodgy things in my laptop well that’s for another day but nothing illegal fortunately.
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Sorry bazzer :ROFLMAO:
 
MustardYellow said:
Me not caring doesn't effect anyone else, some people caring do. Ie, these Gaza marches have caused huge division, increase in hatred etc. Me not being that bothered by it has zero impact on anything. People caring and getting emotional about Johnny and Barry has a negative effect on the family of Johnny and Barry (who are completely innocent), stigma etc. Again, me not caring has no effect on anything.

Basically, my theory is people should (as a general rule*) mind their own business and not be too bothered by what everyone is is/isn't, may/may not be doing. We'd all be happier for it.

*I say as a general rule because there are of course some things that can be considered a collective issue. Just getting all het-up about things is counter-prodcutive though.
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You not caring doesn't effect anyone else, everyone not caring certainly does.

This is what allows institutional racism, industrial poisoning, modern slavery and even genocide.
 
Sheik djibouti said:
But the point is, there is nothing particularly special about the responsibilities you have. Loads of people everywhere have them and on top of that STILL care about other stuff too. And yes you are still young and relatively responsibility free. Believe me when I say that simultaneously caring for both the generation below you and the one above you brings you and entirely different perspective on responsibility, let alone the worry of how you and they are going to afford it all!

Like I said, what you chose to care about is entirely up to you, but the simple fact that you cannot see what difference it makes does not mean they aren't actually making a material difference or are wrong for helping and highlighting the issues in the first place.

And you're right, Gaza is not a great example because it (and the wider Middle East for context)is such a complicated mess that has been going on for decades in its modern format and centuries before that, and will still be going on long after we've all been recycled. That does not mean you cannot try to help those who are in peril right now from the actions of a state that most of the world do not support. THAT is the immediate difference most people who care enough are trying to make, but it is as I say a very complicated situation with some pretty intractable issues and some very entrenched positions. Just because it's hard does not mean people should not try and keep on trying

I think the situation in Gaza would inevitably lead to a rise in anti-semitism from radical elements opposed to the state of Israel and their actions, but is that a true reflection of the feelings of the vast majority of peaceful protestors calling for a ceasefire on those marches? I very much doubt it. And division and hatred has certainly been magnified through the press (who love a bit of confrontation - just think of those clicks and all that advertiser exposure!) and, as we were saying up the thread, through social media and the algorithms that drive it. So I think it ends up as a pretty distorted view of reality for the majority.
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And what difference have all these marches made? Nothing. They've done nothing but divide people. I'd also question the motives of a lot of these people on the marches - do they just want a ceasefire, or is that a smoke screen? Seems to be a lot of pro-terrorism. Have you seen the footage of these 'protesters' chanting in support of Houthis attacking innocent people on trade ships? Yeah... sounds like peace is the goal... not!

If you had a burglar in your family's home and simultaneously there was a house fire in someone else's house at the other end of town, which would you give priority? Would you try to help your family first or would you go help the other's? Point is, we've got plenty of problems in our own country which aren't being solved, so why would you prioritise someone else's problems? Fix yours before you start trying to fix everyone else.

People seem to think they're saviours - it's their duty to solve all injustices and problems across the globe. Meanwhile, they're turning a blind eye to injustices and problems on their doorstep. For me, that makes them lose all credibility.

I don't think we'll agree which is of course always fine. People are entitled to worry and care about whatever they like, I'm entitled to think they're silly, and you're entitled to think I'm silly for thinking they're silly!

I think it's just a personality thing too. I'm very nonchalant about most things in life. That's not to say I don't get angry, upset etc about things - I certainly do! But 10 minutes later I'm over it. Once I've had my rant or little outburst I stop caring. It's interesting because one of my siblings is the complete opposite!
 
MustardYellow said:
If you had a burglar in your family's home and simultaneously there was a house fire in someone else's house at the other end of town, which would you give priority? Would you try to help your family first or would you go help the other's? Point is, we've got plenty of problems in our own country which aren't being solved, so why would you prioritise someone else's problems? Fix yours before you start trying to fix everyone else.

People seem to think they're saviours - it's their duty to solve all injustices and problems across the globe. Meanwhile, they're turning a blind eye to injustices and problems on their doorstep. For me, that makes them lose all credibility.
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A political party that does this would be most welcome.

0.5% (tiny figure) of Gross National Income is given in ODA - the ££££`s (big figure) increase as the economy does better - mostly under the Tories. ;)
1710408477669.png
Then factor in £12 billion to Ukraine, £90 million to Gaza, over £1 billion to Yemen, an "additional" £100 million to Ethiopia in 23/24......... etc etc.

🤷‍♂️
 
m said:
You not caring doesn't effect anyone else, everyone not caring certainly does.

This is what allows institutional racism, industrial poisoning, modern slavery and even genocide.
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Those are very major things though, what about the smaller stuff? The discussion started with me saying most of the news is nonsense and it wouldn't effect anyone if we didn't know about it. That's why I used the example of the fictional Johnny and Barry, what am I meant to do with the information I used in the example? They committed a crime... okay? So now what? It's just pointless information that does very little but make people angry and damage innocent people. 99.999% of the news is about things not even close to the scale of genocide.

Also, for me all this 'genocide' and Gaza stuff loses all credibility when other acts of potential genocide (even though it isn't happening in Gaza) are happening elsewhere in the world and the same people don't care. Over 100,000 Christians have been killed in Nigeria in religiously motivated murders. Over 8,000 of those were last year alone.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that issue is high on the list of my priorities, because it isn't. But surely if you claim to care about potential genocide you should care about *all* potential genocide, no? So why do people pick and choose?
 
SteMerritt said:
Quite possibly the most bizarre comparison I've read on this site - and that's saying something!
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It makes the point. If you have your own problems you wouldn't prioritise someone else's over them. You sort yourself out and once you have, if you have the capacity to help the other family then you may - you wouldn't do it while you're still in the s*** though.
 
MustardYellow said:
And what difference have all these marches made? Nothing. They've done nothing but divide people
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Is it the marches that have divided people or way they have been report on and spoken about by the likes of Braverman and Sunak?

For every sickening clip of Hamas sympathisers you'll find as many clips of Jewish groups standing again what Israel is now doing. If you care to look.
 
Essexyellows said:
A political party that does this would be most welcome.

0.5% (tiny figure) of Gross National Income is given in ODA - the ££££`s (big figure) increase as the economy does better - mostly under the Tories. ;)
View attachment 18327
Then factor in £12 billion to Ukraine, £90 million to Gaza, over £1 billion to Yemen, an "additional" £100 million to Ethiopia in 23/24......... etc etc.

🤷‍♂️
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It's like someone who's about to lose their home giving money to their neighbour so they can move into a bigger house.
 
MustardYellow said:
Those are very major things though, what about the smaller stuff? The discussion started with me saying most of the news is nonsense and it wouldn't effect anyone if we didn't know about it. That's why I used the example of the fictional Johnny and Barry, what am I meant to do with the information I used in the example? They committed a crime... okay? So now what? It's just pointless information that does very little but make people angry and damage innocent people. 99.999% of the news is about things not even close to the scale of genocide.

Also, for me all this 'genocide' and Gaza stuff loses all credibility when other acts of potential genocide (even though it isn't happening in Gaza) are happening elsewhere in the world and the same people don't care. Over 100,000 Christians have been killed in Nigeria in religiously motivated murders. Over 8,000 of those were last year alone.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that issue is high on the list of my priorities, because it isn't. But surely if you claim to care about potential genocide you should care about *all* potential genocide, no? So why do people pick and choose?
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I'm broadly in agreement with your first paragraph. It sells though, and it always has. A lot of people are interested in that stuff, even if you and I are not.

I've no idea why some people appear to care about one potential genocide but not another, you'd have to ask them. I suspect myriad answers would be given.
 
QR said:
Is it the marches that have divided people or way they have been report on and spoken about by the likes of Braverman and Sunak?

For every sickening clip of Hamas sympathisers you'll find as many clips of Jewish groups standing again what Israel is now doing. If you care to look.
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For me personally it's the marches. Seeing people refuse to denounce Hamas, label them 'freedom fighters', sometimes even celebrate them, singing chants in support of the Houthis, seeing an Iranian man attacked by 'protestors' for holding a 'Hamas are terrorists' placard (a legal fact) etc etc is what did it for me.

You don't need Braverman or Sunak to tell you these people are divisive!
 
m said:
I've no idea why some people appear to care about one potential genocide but not another, you'd have to ask them. I suspect myriad answers would be given.
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Maybe because other genocides aren't getting the publicity? That would be down to our press. Just look at how many people cared about the Royal Mail scandal before it was made into a TV drama - before then it was barely registering to the general population. Gaza and Ukraine are at the top of the news cycles almost daily, other similar events are barely covered.
 
MustardYellow said:
And what difference have all these marches made? Nothing. They've done nothing but divide people. I'd also question the motives of a lot of these people on the marches - do they just want a ceasefire, or is that a smoke screen? Seems to be a lot of pro-terrorism. Have you seen the footage of these 'protesters' chanting in support of Houthis attacking innocent people on trade ships? Yeah... sounds like peace is the goal... not!

If you had a burglar in your family's home and simultaneously there was a house fire in someone else's house at the other end of town, which would you give priority? Would you try to help your family first or would you go help the other's? Point is, we've got plenty of problems in our own country which aren't being solved, so why would you prioritise someone else's problems? Fix yours before you start trying to fix everyone else.

People seem to think they're saviours - it's their duty to solve all injustices and problems across the globe. Meanwhile, they're turning a blind eye to injustices and problems on their doorstep. For me, that makes them lose all credibility.

I don't think we'll agree which is of course always fine. People are entitled to worry and care about whatever they like, I'm entitled to think they're silly, and you're entitled to think I'm silly for thinking they're silly!

I think it's just a personality thing too. I'm very nonchalant about most things in life. That's not to say I don't get angry, upset etc about things - I certainly do! But 10 minutes later I'm over it. Once I've had my rant or little outburst I stop caring. It's interesting because one of my siblings is the complete opposite!
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Extremists at marches - well there's a first :ROFLMAO: Like I said, it's a minority and no I haven't seen the footage, I don;t really wish to, but wouldn't condone it for one minute, just like I wouldn't condone any extremist dickhead spouting hatred. For balance, have you seen the footage of all those peaceful protestors, from both "sides" of the argument who are marching for peace and a ceasefire? Guess that doesn't get people all hot under the collar, so doesn't make such good news, even if it is equally legitimate. Have you considered that you're simply consuming the media that is being pushed to you? And maybe compare that to the fine upstanding citizens who arrived in central London a few summers ago to "protect are monuments", who turned out to be a bunch of nationalist pissed up thugs threatening violence and trying to kick off with anyone that looked like they "wanted some"?....and then there's the folk marching in protest at the "Muslamic rayguns" (at least I think that's what he said - look it up!) a few years back. The point being, there are dickheads on all sides of all arguments and it is really easy (and desirable for some "media outlets") to focus on those because it makes good copy, but in reality it distorts the truth....and makes it really easy for echo chambers to exist for "like minded people" to get ever more lost in. Protests are though becoming more and more angry as more people become entrenched and more people consume more media that confirms their beliefs or bias...and so the spiral goes on.

As Ste said, that is one bizarre comparison on the houses!

You think people think they're saviours - that's your perception, your opinion. It's how you chose to view them and maybe, just maybe, you are subconsciously doing that for some reason. Maybe because it's easier to mock/pour scorn/call them fools, than it is to admire what they are trying to do and the attention and focus they are bringing to some dire situations and human suffering, the like and magnitude of which we will probably never see in this country. Therefore it is only natural for many that as the 7th (depending on who you ask) richest nation on the planet, many see that we have the means to help those or aren't so well off in the world.

Again, not wishing to patronise, but it very much sounds like you feel you've got the world worked out at 20 and that you'll always feel the same about stuff. Good to know you're own mind and all that, but I think the majority of older denizens on these boards might beg to differ. Hopefully you've got a long innings ahead of you and you'll try to keep an open mind along the way!
 
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I'm interested in exploring this concept of "sort the stuff out at home first" and the notion that both helping yourself at home and helping others overseas simulataneously is somehow incompatible.

Might it actually be the reason we don't do more to help those in need at home is that, compared to some desperate situations overseas, they just aren't of the same scale and magnitude?

And might it also be the case that the reason we don't do as much at home is purely down to a political choice and not because we can't afford to because we're spending it all in foreign lands, helping people we (you) don't really give a f**k about?
 
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So something that I have personally been affected by got me thinking. My wife gets free healthcare at work and I can join for a small fee. I don’t want to and she can’t understand why.

My argument is this if we go to a healthcare system based on insurance, then hospitals charge what they like for any procedure.

So for example let’s say it’s £5k for a hip replacement or whatever. If it’s based on insurance who starts looking at the prices? it easily could go up to £20k without anyone blinking at the fees for the service.

Lots of people get rich and no one seems to pay anything as it’s built into the benefits of your employment.
So I won’t loose…..

Except what happens if she looses her job, and the NHS has been allowed to slip into the abyss. Then I can’t afford £20k for a hip replacement.
And neither would the majority of people in those circumstances. This is what is happening in the US. Innocent people getting shot and facing hospital bills for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Politics is all about the decisions that we make and how they affect us personally, but most of the time it’s about perception. I don’t think anyone is looking to be a saviour.

Rather than ignore the cries for help a bloke down the road has to put out a fire whilst I have a scrap with a burglar in my home I’d prefer we had a well funded and properly supported fire service that would, at a call put the fire out, and a well funded and properly supported police force that will come out and arrest the thief.
 
News flash - the NHS already outsources a lot of basic work (like hip replacements) without insurance being in the room, although it is knocking on the door ever harder.

The reasoning is as stupid as it sounds.

People who wait beyond a trigger time create a punitive cost for the referring hospital. That eats into the following years financial allocation.

The hip replacement at £5k (NHS) might be invoiced at £7k (Private provider) but it works out better value than the reduction in funding.

Ironically if something serious occurs during the operation/recovery etc the patient gets lobbed back to the NHS and the PP still invoices.

The NHS now has a "habit" of referring the patient well before the trigger date because they know it's unlikely they will be able to make the stars align for the operation, but the better organised PP will.

As soon as "Mr Smith" gets passed to the PP he is off the NHS list and we move on to the next one and the PP makes it happen.

Numbers on spreadsheets eh?
 
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