Current Player #2 Sam Long

[PottersRightBoot]

We’ve missed Long. He’s a better defender than Stevens.

 

[Swaby39]

We’ve missed Long. He’s a better defender than Stevens.

Sure, let’s reinstate him at the first chance we get and watch us struggle to get out of our half again. Can’t wait. Least we might keep a clean sheet.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Sure, let’s reinstate him at the first chance we get and watch us struggle to get out of our half again. Can’t wait. Least we might keep a clean sheet.

If you take the Lincoln game out of it then our form with Sam Long playing this season is the following:

P12 W8 D2 L2

So while you might not rate him, he hasn’t exactly cost us!

 

[Scotchegg]

Sure, let’s reinstate him at the first chance we get and watch us struggle to get out of our half again. Can’t wait. Least we might keep a clean sheet.

Again you are making it very binary.

Peterborough away, we would have taken a clean sheet at the loss of an attacking option. Cheltenham we might have been better with a back 3 of Long, Negru and Brown, with Stevens and Murphy as wing backs, and Bodin and Rodrigues playing off Harris. Northampton and Long may have replaced Rodrigues on 90 minutes instead of Smyth to sure up the defence, even if only to get an uninspiring point.

We couldn't have got any fewer points with Sam Long involved, but it's entirely possible that we might have got a point or two more, which could be the difference between 5th and 2nd at the halfway point.

 

[Verbalkint]

Thought Steven’s really struggled in the first half yesterday, not digging him out, just thought that between him and Mills Cambridge had them pinned in and they didn’t really know how to get out. That said in the second half, I didn’t really notice him which in the nicest way means he did ok. My only ‘moan’ would be that sometimes the backward pass is his first option, but that could be the case for any of the back four. I also thought as much as mcguane is clearly very good his first thought of much of the first half was turn back towards the defence rather than try and drive forward.

 

[Berliner]

It's not a case of Long or Stevens...if we want to get to the next level, we need someone better than both of them.

 

[Swaby39]

Again you are making it very binary.

Peterborough away, we would have taken a clean sheet at the loss of an attacking option. Cheltenham we might have been better with a back 3 of Long, Negru and Brown, with Stevens and Murphy as wing backs, and Bodin and Rodrigues playing off Harris. Northampton and Long may have replaced Rodrigues on 90 minutes instead of Smyth to sure up the defence, even if only to get an uninspiring point.

We couldn't have got any fewer points with Sam Long involved, but it's entirely possible that we might have got a point or two more, which could be the difference between 5th and 2nd at the halfway point.

That’s a matter of opinion. You have a significantly higher opinion of Sam Long’s ability than most, and I think most know by now it’s from a position of bias, but I’m amazed anybody can say with a straight face that Sam Long materially affects any of those results. I can’t see that he’s any more defensively competent than Stevens and on the ball it’s a non-starter.

As I say, I don’t know where this view comes from that he’s some sort of defensive rock that transforms us overnight if he returned to the side. It’s nonsense. His injury forced Manning’s hand to make a change that had been begging to be made for weeks before that as he was costly on a regular basis, the issue was Stevens didn’t look a fully polished replacement and so it’s proven, but having been dropped in the deep end I think he’s done just fine and we’d have desired no better with Long available.

 

[Scotchegg]

That’s a matter of opinion. You have a significantly higher opinion of Sam Long’s ability than most, and I think most know by now it’s from a position of bias, but I’m amazed anybody can say with a straight face that Sam Long materially affects any of those results. I can’t see that he’s any more defensively competent than Stevens and on the ball it’s a non-starter.

As I say, I don’t know where this view comes from that he’s some sort of defensive rock that transforms us overnight if he returned to the side. It’s nonsense. His injury forced Manning’s hand to make a change that had been begging to be made for weeks before that as he was costly on a regular basis, the issue was Stevens didn’t look a fully polished replacement and so it’s proven, but having been dropped in the deep end I think he’s done just fine and we’d have desired no better with Long available.

I think there's only one poster who has a clear bias regarding Sam Long, and that's you. Several posters have offered a balanced view where they acknowledge that both Long and Stevens have different strengths that may be suited to different games. Yet you keep stamping your feet and insisting that everyone is wrong because you don't rate Sam Long.

But as you say, it's all a matter of opinion.

 

[Swaby39]

I think there's only one poster who has a clear bias regarding Sam Long, and that's you. Several posters have offered a balanced view where they acknowledge that both Long and Stevens have different strengths that may be suited to different games. Yet you keep stamping your feet and insisting that everyone is wrong because you don't rate Sam Long.

But as you say, it's all a matter of opinion.

I’ve acknowledged the same thing. I don’t know what you’re on about. I’ve said plenty of times Stevens isn’t perfect but it confuses me when people say the guy we needed to replace is now the thing we’re missing… If Stevens isn’t sufficient then neither of them are, it’s quite a simple discussion.

 

[tim lane]

That’s a matter of opinion. You have a significantly higher opinion of Sam Long’s ability than most, and I think most know by now it’s from a position of bias, but I’m amazed anybody can say with a straight face that Sam Long materially affects any of those results. I can’t see that he’s any more defensively competent than Stevens and on the ball it’s a non-starter.

As I say, I don’t know where this view comes from that he’s some sort of defensive rock that transforms us overnight if he returned to the side. It’s nonsense. His injury forced Manning’s hand to make a change that had been begging to be made for weeks before that as he was costly on a regular basis, the issue was Stevens didn’t look a fully polished replacement and so it’s proven, but having been dropped in the deep end I think he’s done just fine and we’d have desired no better with Long available.

From where do you garner the view that most supporters share your opinion as to Sam Long's ability, or lack of it? I think we all recognise his limitations and I don't think 'he will transform us overnight if he returned to the side', but equally I think it wrong to suggest that 'he was costly on a regular basis' earlier in the season. So a more balanced perspective, perhaps, about a player whom I'm sure you appreciate as being a great servant of the Mighty Yellows.

 

[Carpy]

Of all our problems right now, neither Sam Long or Fin Stevens is anywhere close to being one of the biggest

 

[Swaby39]

From where do you garner the view that most supporters share your opinion as to Sam Long's ability, or lack of it? I think we all recognise his limitations and I don't think 'he will transform us overnight if he returned to the side', but equally I think it wrong to suggest that 'he was costly on a regular basis' earlier in the season. So a more balanced perspective, perhaps, about a player whom I'm sure you appreciate as being a great servant of the Mighty Yellows.

It’s a significantly higher opinion than even those who just think he’s OK! But then there’s the endless post match discussions and PM’s to agree with me that also quite rightly point out it’s a pointless debate.

I don’t think everybody sees it to the extent that I do but we towed the same line with Eastwood for months and even after Beadle arrived people still believed we were better off with Easty and he would play. It wasn’t until people saw a half decent goalkeeper in an Oxford shirt again that they began to accept Eastwood was not good enough.

The same happened when Greg Leigh arrived and now Bennet to an extent, people now see that Brown is a centre back that was no more than competent in holding his own at left back.

The same will happen at right back when we eventually get our hands on one that has the same impact. It isn’t Stevens, at least not yet, but Long still remains firmly second best.

 

[Jster]

But the thing is Beadle is almost certainly "too good" for League One, and is an unrealistic standard to aim for in general in this division. We are very lucky to have him, but he really can't be used as an example of what a league one standard goalkeeper should be like.

So, yes, in theory we could luck out and get a right back as good at his role as Beadle is a goalkeeper, but it strikes me as extremely unlikely. Long is a decent league one right back; no better, no worse.

 

[Swaby39]

But the thing is Beadle is almost certainly "too good" for League One, and is an unrealistic standard to aim for in general in this division. We are very lucky to have him, but he really can't be used as an example of what a league one standard goalkeeper should be like.

So, yes, in theory we could luck out and get a right back as good at his role as Beadle is a goalkeeper, but it strikes me as extremely unlikely. Long is a decent league one right back; no better, no worse.

He is, but he was obtainable and we got him here which is symbolic of the shift in standards I have mentioned a lot. As fans we should be embracing that as the new bar across all positions as it isn’t the only area we got ourselves an exceptional player - Rodrigues, Leigh, Edwards to name a few others are on that level. Even Mills I think has been a superb player for us.

Beadle may be above L1 standard but so are several others and those we are competing with have squads full of them. Rather than look at him as a flash in the pan, we need to see that as exceptional recruitment and aim for more of the same. Ipswich are currently 2nd in the division above and their entire XI that drew with Leicester the other day was all with them in L1!

So, taking this new standard of player we have been targeting (your Beadle, Edwards, Rodrigues, Leigh etc)… Are we suggesting Long/Eastwood are fitting the profile? Will they ever? That’s what I’m trying to get at. Eastwood isn’t unlucky that Beadle is good, he’s just not remotely good enough to hold the number one shirt in a side at this level vying for promotion. Clubs that get promoted from L1 mercilessly improve until they can’t anymore. We’re on that journey and it just makes my skin crawl a little how much we cling on to memories like that’ll get us promoted.

 

[tim lane]

It’s a significantly higher opinion than even those who just think he’s OK! But then there’s the endless post match discussions and PM’s to agree with me that also quite rightly point out it’s a pointless debate.

I don’t think everybody sees it to the extent that I do but we towed the same line with Eastwood for months and even after Beadle arrived people still believed we were better off with Easty and he would play. It wasn’t until people saw a half decent goalkeeper in an Oxford shirt again that they began to accept Eastwood was not good enough.

The same happened when Greg Leigh arrived and now Bennet to an extent, people now see that Brown is a centre back that was no more than competent in holding his own at left back.

The same will happen at right back when we eventually get our hands on one that has the same impact. It isn’t Stevens, at least not yet, but Long still remains firmly second best.

You make a very cogent argument, both above and in your subsequent post and I appreciate that. However, you've gone off at a tangent from the simple point I was attempting to make and that was re your comment that Long 'was costly on a regular basis' in the early part of this season. It can't have been that costly as I think we were second in the table after the Lincoln game.

 

[Swaby39]

You make a very cogent argument, both above and in your subsequent post and I appreciate that. However, you've gone off at a tangent from the simple point I was attempting to make and that was re your comment that Long 'was costly on a regular basis' in the early part of this season. It can't have been that costly as I think we were second in the table after the Lincoln game.

It’s small, insignificant incidents rather than glaring howlers that directly resulted in lost points. I didn’t mean to frame it as though he were directly the cause of dropped points as that wouldn’t be true this season, however, it would be true of last season where we had a significantly weaker side that couldn’t atone for it or get us back in the game later on. He’s costly in the sense of often being a reason we come under pressure and just visibly a less effective team, more on the ball than off.

I could pick out individual incidents but that’s a pointless rabbit hole.

 

[Followtheox1]

It’s small, insignificant incidents rather than glaring howlers that directly resulted in lost points. I didn’t mean to frame it as though he were directly the cause of dropped points as that wouldn’t be true this season, however, it would be true of last season where we had a significantly weaker side that couldn’t atone for it or get us back in the game later on. He’s costly in the sense of often being a reason we come under pressure and just visibly a less effective team, more on the ball than off.

I could pick out individual incidents but that’s a pointless rabbit hole.

Having read yours and others views, I do kind of agree with you on some points. On his day Long is a competent enough defender. His ability to play across the back is useful too. However, his distribution is so poor. I can't believe anyone would say otherwise. His ability to play the simplest passes sometimes is infuriating and he lacks composure. This season I thought he struggled to build a connection with whoever was playing in front of him. By the time of his injury, it was noticeable that opposition teams were clearly targeting our right hand side as an area of weakness. It was obvious their analysts had seen that.

On his day do I think Long is good enough, yes. On his day do I think he has enough pace and drive to offer attacking options from right back, yes. On his day do I think he is a competent defender, yes. However, does 'his day' come around that often, in my view no. Over the years has he shown enough consistency that RBack is considered a position that we don't need to get anyone else in, no in my view. Can we do better, ultimately I believe we can. As a squad player he is useful but in my view no more than that.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

It’s small, insignificant incidents rather than glaring howlers that directly resulted in lost points. I didn’t mean to frame it as though he were directly the cause of dropped points as that wouldn’t be true this season, however, it would be true of last season where we had a significantly weaker side that couldn’t atone for it or get us back in the game later on. He’s costly in the sense of often being a reason we come under pressure and just visibly a less effective team, more on the ball than off.

I could pick out individual incidents but that’s a pointless rabbit hole.

Which goals were his fault in the games vs Cambridge, Blackpool, Wigan or Wycombe games?

 

[Swaby39]

Having read yours and others views, I do kind of agree with you on some points. On his day Long is a competent enough defender. His ability to play across the back is useful too. However, his distribution is so poor. I can't believe anyone would say otherwise. His ability to play the simplest passes sometimes is infuriating and he lacks composure. This season I thought he struggled to build a connection with whoever was playing in front of him. By the time of his injury, it was noticeable that opposition teams were clearly targeting our right hand side as an area of weakness. It was obvious their analysts had seen that.

On his day do I think Long is good enough, yes. On his day do I think he has enough pace and drive to offer attacking options from right back, yes. On his day do I think he is a competent defender, yes. However, does 'his day' come around that often, in my view no. Over the years has he shown enough consistency that RBack is considered a position that we don't need to get anyone else in, no in my view. Can we do better, ultimately I believe we can. As a squad player he is useful but in my view no more than that.

A few years ago, if you graphed it, there was a nice meeting point of Long’s ability as a player, the standard of the league and what we could realistically achieve as a team.

All of that has now changed. Our ceiling is significantly higher with a far greater reach on player recruitment and resource. The league as a whole has improved substantially with more championship and even ex premier league players knocking around. Clubs are better run and finding better players to compete and all the while Sam Long is not the best version of himself and hasn’t been for some time. Time to accept and move on.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

A few years ago, if you graphed it, there was a nice meeting point of Long’s ability as a player, the standard of the league and what we could realistically achieve as a team.

All of that has now changed. Our ceiling is significantly higher with a far greater reach on player recruitment and resource. The league as a whole has improved substantially with more championship and even ex premier league players knocking around. Clubs are better run and finding better players to compete and all the while Sam Long is not the best version of himself and hasn’t been for some time. Time to accept and move on.

I think if you graphed Stevens it would show teams ' targeting ' our right side . Considerable mistakes in potentially dangerous areas and while better in possession and going forward Long is superior in defending especially crosses with his aerial ability .