National News Boris Johnson successor

Journalist, author and former commercial magazine publisher going back some 16 years here. Started at EMAP publishing before the buyout by Bauer Media, and also spent a couple of years with Future as well as a year writing about football for several broadsheets as well as the PA.

Print newspapers are still the bread and butter of many people over 40, and especially those over 50 and 60, and the older you get the more likely you are to vote. This is the same for magazines - the ones that still exist and sell lots of copies do so because their audience is 40+. Overall, people aged 50+ tend to believe what is written in print and don’t spend much time online or on social media being exposed to other opinions and points of view, and therefore there are limited opportunities to debunk anything thrown at them. Their social networks (primarily Facebook) are built around people they know and groups focusing on their local area / neighbourhood. The only thing they see outside of posts relating to these people or groups are adverts that are paid for and targeted to their timelines. Which is a road we’ve all been down before.

Every PM (and wannabe PM’s in some cases) meets the editors and key journalists of these papers on a regular basis. They do not do this because there is no reason to. Even dear Boris took a private jet from Glasgow to London last month (during COP, hilariously) to have a meeting with journalists from the papers. This is a matter of fact and not speculation. Why did he do that if nobody reads them and they have no power or influence? These people control whether or not the Prime Minister keeps their job. One co-ordinated blast of negativity and ‘scandal’ and they can be toppled. The Sun has backed the winning horse in every election going back to the 80s. That’s a heck of a record if they’re just guessing.

Of the commercial UK daily newspapers, the top titles in terms of distribution and reach are currently:

1. Metro
2. The Sun
3. Daily Mail
4. Evening Standard
5. The Mirror
6. The Times
7. The Telegraph
8. Daily Express

Of these, only The Mirror at 5 is an openly ‘left wing’ paper. Metro is owned by the Daily Mail and general trust. The Sun is an openly Tory / Brexit supporting paper owned by the Murdoch group. The Daily Mail is openly Conservative / right wing. Ditto the Evening Standard (25% owned by the Daily Mail and 63% owned by Evgeny ‘Lord’ Lebedev who was made a Tory peer last year). Ditto The Times. Ditto The Telegraph. Ditto the Daily Express. They openly and freely describe themselves as Conservative, right wing papers. There is no guessing or conspiracy involved in that assumption. So that’s 7 of the top 8 papers that are all Tory linked, with only number 5 sitting on the ‘other side’. These 8 titles make up a good 95% of all newspapers.

Much like the discussion on radio versus streaming, there are two entirely different worlds at play here. You’re wrong to dismiss print media in the way that you do. I would know - it paid for my house and the houses of many people I know. It didn’t do that because it’s irrelevant.
Would you agree the influence of print-media is diminishing though? I can't imagine as we get older my generation are suddenly going to become interested in these publications. The way people consume news is changing even if it's a slower process than I initially thought.

I am pretty amazed that the Guardian isn't even in the top 8 most distributed newspapers, but given the drivel written in there maybe I shouldn't be.
 
Would you agree the influence of print-media is diminishing though? I can't imagine as we get older my generation are suddenly going to become interested in these publications. The way people consume news is changing even if it's a slower process than I initially thought.

I am pretty amazed that the Guardian isn't even in the top 8 most distributed newspapers, but given the drivel written in there maybe I shouldn't be.
The Guardian isn't a big seller as a print title but is a very popular website - because it's good, and has an international approach, but also because it's not behind a paywall like Times and Telegraph.
 
Would you agree the influence of print-media is diminishing though? I can't imagine as we get older my generation are suddenly going to become interested in these publications. The way people consume news is changing even if it's a slower process than I initially thought.

I am pretty amazed that the Guardian isn't even in the top 8 most distributed newspapers, but given the drivel written in there maybe I shouldn't be.

The Daily Mail has a very significant online presence which goes international as well.
 
Would you agree the influence of print-media is diminishing though?
Not really. Not yet. People living longer combined with technology still being relatively young means we aren’t at a ‘tipping point’ yet in terms of people dying out and a collective shift in platforms. And I can assure you, the vast majority of those who read print are religious in doing so. At least 95% of the people who do still read papers believe what they read in them. My parents can’t fathom that a newspaper would be allowed to lie (“they wouldn’t be allowed to print it if it wasn’t true”) and that’s the same for my aunts and uncles, and my grandmother. Basically everybody I know over the age of 60, and even some of my siblings and cousins who are in their forties are the same. They’re more open to being shown an alternative than the older ones, but they still take the words in print at face value to begin with. You have to feed them the counter evidence with a spoon, otherwise they would never look for it.

I was put through my libel and ethics training (lol) by the same people who own many of these publications (or are sister companies etc), and was on the same course as many people who are now tabloid and broadsheet columnists or desk staffers. So I’ve got a pretty good idea of what is and isn’t common practice, but I can’t compete with a headline. My firsthand experience and knowledge of the inner workings of the press doesn’t hold much water with most of my own family. We’ve had enough of experts, after all.

The companies that own these newspapers have been buying up digital assets and investing in online outlets for the last 20 years (EDIT - plus some of them have huge online reaches of their own that mirror and amplify their print opinions). Websites, digital brands - dig down and the majority of meaningful online news sources or opinion shifters are owned at least in part by companies set up by the newspaper groups, if not the newspaper groups themselves. They aren’t stupid, nor are they going to watch their empires crumble after decades, in some cases centuries of essentially owning information. Just because they don’t always have their logo stamped on everything doesn’t mean they aren’t in the conversation or moving the needle. In fact it’s often beneficial for them not to be in view, because the last thing they often want is people pointing at their name on the deeds and using their ownership as a method of discrediting what they’re putting out there. It’s very muddy.

It’s probably one for a couple of pints, a punch-up and a cuddle rather than an Internet forum, but it’s quite interesting stuff. Horrifying and downright dangerous, but interesting. You name the pub, I’ll bring the paper hats.
 
Not really. Not yet. People living longer combined with technology still being relatively young means we aren’t at a ‘tipping point’ yet in terms of people dying out and a collective shift in platforms. And I can assure you, the vast majority of those who read print are religious in doing so. At least 95% of the people who do still read papers believe what they read in them. My parents can’t fathom that a newspaper would be allowed to lie (“they wouldn’t be allowed to print it if it wasn’t true”) and that’s the same for my aunts and uncles, and my grandmother. Basically everybody I know over the age of 60, and even some of my siblings and cousins who are in their forties are the same. They’re more open to being shown an alternative than the older ones, but they still take the words in print at face value to begin with. You have to feed them the counter evidence with a spoon, otherwise they would never look for it.

I was put through my libel and ethics training (lol) by the same people who own many of these publications (or are sister companies etc), and was on the same course as many people who are now tabloid and broadsheet columnists or desk staffers. So I’ve got a pretty good idea of what is and isn’t common practice, but I can’t compete with a headline. My firsthand experience and knowledge of the inner workings of the press doesn’t hold much water with most of my own family. We’ve had enough of experts, after all.

The companies that own these newspapers have been buying up digital assets and investing in online outlets for the last 20 years (EDIT - plus some of them have huge online reaches of their own that mirror and amplify their print opinions). Websites, digital brands - dig down and the majority of meaningful online news sources or opinion shifters are owned at least in part by companies set up by the newspaper groups, if not the newspaper groups themselves. They aren’t stupid, nor are they going to watch their empires crumble after decades, in some cases centuries of essentially owning information. Just because they don’t always have their logo stamped on everything doesn’t mean they aren’t in the conversation or moving the needle. In fact it’s often beneficial for them not to be in view, because the last thing they often want is people pointing at their name on the deeds and using their ownership as a method of discrediting what they’re putting out there. It’s very muddy.

It’s probably one for a couple of pints, a punch-up and a cuddle rather than an Internet forum, but it’s quite interesting stuff. Horrifying and downright dangerous, but interesting. You name the pub, I’ll bring the paper hats.
I for one can't believe a newspaper could lie ;) :ROFLMAO:
 
Not really. Not yet. People living longer combined with technology still being relatively young means we aren’t at a ‘tipping point’ yet in terms of people dying out and a collective shift in platforms. And I can assure you, the vast majority of those who read print are religious in doing so. At least 95% of the people who do still read papers believe what they read in them. My parents can’t fathom that a newspaper would be allowed to lie (“they wouldn’t be allowed to print it if it wasn’t true”) and that’s the same for my aunts and uncles, and my grandmother. Basically everybody I know over the age of 60, and even some of my siblings and cousins who are in their forties are the same. They’re more open to being shown an alternative than the older ones, but they still take the words in print at face value to begin with. You have to feed them the counter evidence with a spoon, otherwise they would never look for it.

I was put through my libel and ethics training (lol) by the same people who own many of these publications (or are sister companies etc), and was on the same course as many people who are now tabloid and broadsheet columnists or desk staffers. So I’ve got a pretty good idea of what is and isn’t common practice, but I can’t compete with a headline. My firsthand experience and knowledge of the inner workings of the press doesn’t hold much water with most of my own family. We’ve had enough of experts, after all.

The companies that own these newspapers have been buying up digital assets and investing in online outlets for the last 20 years (EDIT - plus some of them have huge online reaches of their own that mirror and amplify their print opinions). Websites, digital brands - dig down and the majority of meaningful online news sources or opinion shifters are owned at least in part by companies set up by the newspaper groups, if not the newspaper groups themselves. They aren’t stupid, nor are they going to watch their empires crumble after decades, in some cases centuries of essentially owning information. Just because they don’t always have their logo stamped on everything doesn’t mean they aren’t in the conversation or moving the needle. In fact it’s often beneficial for them not to be in view, because the last thing they often want is people pointing at their name on the deeds and using their ownership as a method of discrediting what they’re putting out there. It’s very muddy.

It’s probably one for a couple of pints, a punch-up and a cuddle rather than an Internet forum, but it’s quite interesting stuff. Horrifying and downright dangerous, but interesting. You name the pub, I’ll bring the paper hats.
very well explained and well put too @RyanioBirdio

my dayjob is a Freelance contributor for several (monthly) printed publications
the main one of which sells around 200,000 to 250,000 'units' a month
included in which are subscribers, ( around 22500 currently) ... there is also the option to subscribe to a digital / online edition, which has under 300 subscribers currently

Echoing what @RyanioBirdio says above , and adding too it as well, people over a certain age ( early 30s certainly, late 30s/ early 40s onwards very certainly), seem to prefer to have a 'hard copy' (printed copy) which they can hold in their hands when reading
 
Echoing what @RyanioBirdio says above , and adding too it as well, people over a certain age ( early 30s certainly, late 30s/ early 40s onwards very certainly), seem to prefer to have a 'hard copy' (printed copy) which they can hold in their hands when reading
I certainly fall into that group with many things - reference books (novels are ok on a Kindle, reference books, manuals etc are not) and music (I like to have some physical media - albums are meant to be played in track order, I want to be able to rip it to various devices, don't want to lose all of my music if hardware - either mine or a providers - goes down, a provider goes bust, I can't play a digital file on a proper jukebox etc) particularly. Haven't bought a physical newspaper in years though - but neither do I bother to subscribe to an online version of one. I can get all the news I want (and more) online for free - you just have to read several reputable sources to be at least a little confident you are getting something approximating the truth.
 
Echoing what @RyanioBirdio says above , and adding too it as well, people over a certain age ( early 30s certainly, late 30s/ early 40s onwards very certainly), seem to prefer to have a 'hard copy' (printed copy) which they can hold in their hands when reading
Put me in that category for magazines. I have a subscription to a Future Publishing gaming mag (Edge) which I've had for over 20 years, no way will I ever want to convert it to a 'digital' version. I used to buy the music papers as well before that part of the industry went to s**t - Still miss Sounds and Melody Maker.

BUT I don't buy any newspapers, never have done. I tend to get news articles online, but then mainly from the UK Press websites and BBC.
 
One final word on the impact of print in all forms:

You also need to consider the ‘value’ of a reader as opposed to treating all readers as equal. A print reader is a different type of beast. If you’re an online reader you’re likely a fast scroller, you like to click around, you most likely have another tab running in the background, and you want to get in and out because something else is calling you. Bounce rates and session times on websites are incredibly low for the most part, particularly news sources compared to retail and e-commerce. A print reader, however, is far more invested. They’re there to consume, to absorb and to spend time with the content presented to them. They’re there for the detail, so what they read sticks with them. It doesn’t just get bounced around like a rubber ball before shooting off. It has a much higher value.

Even within print you have two parties - paid and free. If someone is handed a free magazine they’re likely to put it straight in the bin. You can hand out 500,000 copies of a free magazine and you’ll be lucky if 10% of them are read, and even then you’re probably talking a cursory flick for 30 seconds. Maybe 10% of that 10% will be genuinely absorbed, meaning you’re lucky if 500,000 handouts results in 5,000 genuine reads from front to back. I don’t think it’s even that high, personally, but that’s the top end. If someone has paid money for a publication, however, it’s because they want to actually read it. I used to work for a specialist music magazine with average sales of only 15-20,000 copies per issue, and I had countless arguments with labels and publicists because they were prioritising tiny little features in NME (after it went free and was claiming to dish out a million units per week) over giving us the access we needed for the artists’s core market. I used the same formulas I mentioned above and presented a lot of pretty compelling stats and information to back up my argument - namely that 20,000 guaranteed readers with us was worth more than a maximum of 10,000 casual NME readers, not only numerically but also because we were offering a more direct hit to those who were more likely to have an interest in the artist as a specialist title - and after a few months several labels started to see that this was true. They began running their own metrics and saw that streams and YouTube searches for said artist increased more in the first few days after they were featured in our magazine, rather than in the first few days after a free copy of NME was handed out. Again, it’s the value of the reader. They were wrong to assume that it was as simple as more people = bigger reach and bigger impact.

This same methodology also spills over into advertising. The reason that print adverts still exist is for the same reasons I outlined already - investment and conversion. If somebody has already spent money on a physical item (newspaper, magazine) then you know that they’re potentially up for spending on other physical items. You also know they’re likely to take in the information given on the ad rather than blank it out (or use an ad blocker). If 10,000 people have paid £7 to read a heavy metal magazine (and each copy is read by multiple people, don’t forget), there is a good chance that even 50 of those people might spend £20 on a special vinyl of a record by a band that is featured prominently or regularly in said publication. So it’s probably worth plonking a £500 ad in the magazine, rather than spending the same amount of money sending a digital ad that they can scroll past to their socials feeds, and that even if they take notice of might result in a couple of streams rather than a purchase, which generates basically 0p.

You can then take all of the above and apply it to information presented by tabloids and broadsheets. A print reader is consumed and invested. They aren’t scrolling or paying attention to anything else outside of those words as they’ve spent money accessing them, and they’re investing because they want to read it all and it’s going to stick with them as a result. Their value is extremely high. The Sun sells over a million copies a day and each copy is read by more than one person. That’s far more influential and has way more cut through than one page on a website full of literally thousands of other articles, with an average visitor time of 10-20 seconds. People usually search for what they want to know about online - they dictate the topic that they are interested in finding out more about and can find another source to you in seconds. In print, though, you determine what they will be seeing, and they’ve probably only got the one physical source in front of them. There is huge power in that.

If you’ve read all this, you’ve earned a drink. Put it on my tab. Unless you’re @SteMerritt in which case you knew what you signed up for.

PS - give it Govey ‘til the end of the season.
 
Put me in that category for magazines. I have a subscription to a Future Publishing gaming mag (Edge) which I've had for over 20 years, no way will I ever want to convert it to a 'digital' version. I used to buy the music papers as well before that part of the industry went to s**t - Still miss Sounds and Melody Maker.

BUT I don't buy any newspapers, never have done. I tend to get news articles online, but then mainly from the UK Press websites and BBC.
Blimey, Edge is still going? I remember buying issue 1 of that in the mid to late 90s.
 
Not really. Not yet. People living longer combined with technology still being relatively young means we aren’t at a ‘tipping point’ yet in terms of people dying out and a collective shift in platforms. And I can assure you, the vast majority of those who read print are religious in doing so. At least 95% of the people who do still read papers believe what they read in them. My parents can’t fathom that a newspaper would be allowed to lie (“they wouldn’t be allowed to print it if it wasn’t true”) and that’s the same for my aunts and uncles, and my grandmother. Basically everybody I know over the age of 60, and even some of my siblings and cousins who are in their forties are the same.
Really interesting comments Ryan.
I am thought very surprised at the 95% statistic. I read newspapers at the weekend if I get the time. I realise that much of what is in newspapers is inaccurate or opinion.
I am surprised that many many people don't think the same ( whilst accepting that many do have entrenched views and do believe everything in their paper of choice)? Is that number shown by surveys etc?
 
'They jabber, we jab'.

Johnson trying to claim political capital from the massive effort of an army of volunteers.

A new low in my book.
 
'They jabber, we jab'.

Johnson trying to claim political capital from the massive effort of an army of volunteers.

A new low in my book.
I don’t think Bojo needs any more sniping from others - he creates more than enough himself .
As for volunteers, that’s been the case since the vaccination programme started in Dec 2020.
But, like it or not, the programme was and is instigated by government decree.
 
I don’t think Bojo needs any more sniping from others - he creates more than enough himself .
As for volunteers, that’s been the case since the vaccination programme started in Dec 2020.
But, like it or not, the programme was and is instigated by government decree.
Absolutely, but seeing as many of the volunteers will be non-tory voters, at best Johnson, can only deter volunteering with such crass claims.

Respect by the way.
 
I doubt I will be voting for anyone much before March.
Rishi is on his way back from California to do something, although exactly what I know not.
Truss, Sunak or a rank outsider in the Rory mould........ although Gove and similar will have the gravitas required for the upper echelons.

We`ll see, the knives aren`t out yet and the Teflon kid keeps going...
 
They may be out now after Liberal Democrats storm to victory last night.
I bet whoever had those photos of Party revelling last year will be very happy this morning
 
I doubt I will be voting for anyone much before March.
Rishi is on his way back from California to do something, although exactly what I know not.
Truss, Sunak or a rank outsider in the Rory mould........ although Gove and similar will have the gravitas required for the upper echelons.

We`ll see, the knives aren`t out yet and the Teflon kid keeps going...
That might just have changed, 24 hours is a very long time in politics.
 
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Any comment on yesterday's devastating defeat in a constituency that has been true blue for all but two of the last 189 years Ms Truss?
 
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