3rd Test Thu 6-10 July 2023 - Headingley

[38yearsofpain]

Apparently Cummins is not talking to Carey after he failed to run out Brook during the lunch interval.

Smith and Warner are handing out sandpaper as we speak. Smith looked distraught with Cummins choices at the death.

 

[Big Ron]

Rehen Ahmed. Is it worth letting the young Leg Spinner loose at Old Trafford? The Oval normally has a bit of spin too.

But based on what? It would have to be potential - he's taken no wickets this season and was knocked around the ground a few weeks back when I saw him play at Gloucester. As I wrote previously, it's a lot different playing on a dust bowl in Pakistan with lots of runs on the board to what we are seeing in this series. No real massive totals and tight games.

I want to see a young spinner coming through and he may be the man/boy, but I'd be really surprised to see him now.

 

[holdsteady]

Australia only gave the young spinner they picked 9 and a half overs so England are not really alone in not wanting to chance it in these tight games, you can make the case that a couple of expensive overs can lose you the game.

Can’t see us changing anyone who isn’t injured out, we have just won our first test of the series so I think they will want to keep it as similar as possible.

 

[ECYellow]

Great win! Anyone else going to Old Trafford for the 4th test?

 

[Sharp Edges]

I would go with the below at Old Trafford:

Crawley
Duckett
Lawrence?
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Tongue

Lawrence is a risk but I cant think of anyone better. We will need to score some runs, our bowlers wont dig us out of the dirt every game.

Bairstow looks like he has teflon gloves on and has been a liability, he was one of many reasons we lost at Edgbaston. His batting hasnt been anywhere near good enough to compensate for what he is giving away behind the sticks.

Root will have to bowl spin if needed, if we need a spinner then Moeen isnt it, there is every chance his fingers will fall apart again if he has any workload. He got two massive wickets at Headingly but they really were down to batting brain fades than anything he did.

If Hazlewood isnt fit then they are so reliant on Starc and Cummings its scary....... No it isnt! It makes me smile! Warner looks like he has given up now, we have problems but so do they. Game on.

 

[Big Ron]

I would go with the below at Old Trafford:

Crawley
Duckett
Lawrence?
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Tongue

Lawrence is a risk but I cant think of anyone better. We will need to score some runs, our bowlers wont dig us out of the dirt every game.

Bairstow looks like he has teflon gloves on and has been a liability, he was one of many reasons we lost at Edgbaston. His batting hasnt been anywhere near good enough to compensate for what he is giving away behind the sticks.

Root will have to bowl spin if needed, if we need a spinner then Moeen isnt it, there is every chance his fingers will fall apart again if he has any workload. He got two massive wickets at Headingly but they really were down to batting brain fades than anything he did.

If Hazlewood isnt fit then they are so reliant on Starc and Cummings its scary....... No it isnt! It makes me smile! Warner looks like he has given up now, we have problems but so do they. Game on.

They were certainly poor shots against Moeen but I think you've dismissed his bowling too easily - he actually bowled a very tight spell, held an end down for 17 overs and didn't concede many runs. He was important in a low scoring innings.

 

[Mike_H]

Please can Milan bat 3 and Foakes keep wicket. Expecting Woakes Wood Broad and Tongue to be the pace attack. Intriging to see what wicket they produce for Old Trafford. May well go with Root as the spin option.
Lot depends on the track they produce.

Inter or AC? Not for me - you can't expect either of them to score double figures in a match.

Agree with Foakes though.

 

[Leysboy]

But based on what? It would have to be potential - he's taken no wickets this season and was knocked around the ground a few weeks back when I saw him play at Gloucester. As I wrote previously, it's a lot different playing on a dust bowl in Pakistan with lots of runs on the board to what we are seeing in this series. No real massive totals and tight games.

I want to see a young spinner coming through and he may be the man/boy, but I'd be really surprised to see him now.

Based on nothing really, but what we’ve been crying out for and it’s been along time. Is a premier spinner. Sooner or later we have to give someone a really good run in the team and he’s young. Parkinson was mentioned before aswell.

Swann was our last decent spinner, and I’m all for giving players an opportunity. The Aussies might think they can cream him for runs, and get themselves out. It’s worth a try.

I confess I don’t watch a lot of county cricket, but I do emotionally follow the England cricket team, and been away with them in Sri Lanka and watched a tour there.

 

[MJB]

Top drawer Fancy Dress at the cricket yesterday:

https://www.threads.net/t/Cueyi3AMc0D/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

 

[Big Ron]

Based on nothing really, but what we’ve been crying out for and it’s been along time. Is a premier spinner. Sooner or later we have to give someone a really good run in the team and he’s young. Parkinson was mentioned before aswell.

Swann was our last decent spinner, and I’m all for giving players an opportunity. The Aussies might think they can cream him for runs, and get themselves out. It’s worth a try.

I confess I don’t watch a lot of county cricket, but I do emotionally follow the England cricket team, and been away with them in Sri Lanka and watched a tour there.

I agree we will need to blood someone at some stage and it will likely be Rehan but I don't think now is a good time.

Parkinson, who doesn't have have a good enough stock ball to be an international spinner, couldn't even get a game at Lancashire and has moved to Durham I think mid-season. He was never the answer.

Unfortunately, the most consistent county spinner in recent years has been Simon Harmer and he's a Saffer who hardly plays for them!

 

[MJB]

Unfortunately, the most consistent county spinner in recent years has been Simon Harmer and he's a Saffer who hardly plays for them!

Hasn’t stopped us in the past!

 

[Big Ron]

Hasn’t stopped us in the past!

Unfortunately he's played to recently!

 

[tonyw]

Based on nothing really, but what we’ve been crying out for and it’s been along time. Is a premier spinner. Sooner or later we have to give someone a really good run in the team and he’s young. Parkinson was mentioned before aswell.

Swann was our last decent spinner, and I’m all for giving players an opportunity. The Aussies might think they can cream him for runs, and get themselves out. It’s worth a try.

I confess I don’t watch a lot of county cricket, but I do emotionally follow the England cricket team, and been away with them in Sri Lanka and watched a tour there.

We shouldn't pretend this is anything new - Swann is the only world class spinner we've had in the past 40 years! Basically since Derek Underwood went on tour to South Africa and got himself banned in 1982......

The next best......Monty? Emburey? Edmonds? King of Spain? Tuffers?.....none of them were any better than serviceable.

Unless the Old Trafford groundskeeper has prepared a turning wicket (and if he has, he should be off to the tower), I think I would just bring in Foakes for Moeen, and leave it at that. Bairstow is a liability with the gloves and has to be replaced there, but I'm not sure we've got a better bet to get runs at #6. Rely on Root for a few overs of spin if you need them.

And either Root or Stokes will have to go up and bat at #3.

 

[Leysboy]

We shouldn't pretend this is anything new - Swann is the only world class spinner we've had in the past 40 years! Basically since Derek Underwood went on tour to South Africa and got himself banned in 1982......

The next best......Monty? Emburey? Edmonds? King of Spain? Tuffers?.....none of them were any better than serviceable.

Unless the Old Trafford groundskeeper has prepared a turning wicket (and if he has, he should be off to the tower), I think I would just bring in Foakes for Moeen, and leave it at that. Bairstow is a liability with the gloves and has to be replaced there, but I'm not sure we've got a better bet to get runs at #6. Rely on Root for a few overs of spin if you need them.

And either Root or Stokes will have to go up and bat at #3.

I think we all agree, that Foakes needs to come in with the gloves. That should of happened before the series, and I was shocked he wasn’t selected.

He’s not a flamboyant batter by any means, but he can sit and dig in Flor a fair amount of time, and score steadily. Bairstow just looks all over the place with bat and gloves.

Ideally you want a wicket that’s going to have something in it for the seamers early on, and after a couple of days the ball starts to turn. That’s when your spinner is supposed to come in and take over an end and potentially skittle out the opposition. I think Swann was a brilliant off spin bowler, and that part of our team has been lacking ever since he decided is was time to retire.

Young Ahmed or whoever it may be for the next match or in future needs to be given a fair crack of the whip. Leach isn’t good enough to bowl out a team, and sometimes struggles to dry the runs up from one end. I would like to see us give the young man a chance, but perhaps we will see him feature in India where he will definitely get some assistance.

 

[Foley]

We shouldn't pretend this is anything new - Swann is the only world class spinner we've had in the past 40 years! Basically since Derek Underwood went on tour to South Africa and got himself banned in 1982......

The next best......Monty? Emburey? Edmonds? King of Spain? Tuffers?.....none of them were any better than serviceable.

Unless the Old Trafford groundskeeper has prepared a turning wicket (and if he has, he should be off to the tower), I think I would just bring in Foakes for Moeen, and leave it at that. Bairstow is a liability with the gloves and has to be replaced there, but I'm not sure we've got a better bet to get runs at #6. Rely on Root for a few overs of spin if you need them.

And either Root or Stokes will have to go up and bat at #3.

I can't see why Stokes can't bat at 3 (on the basis that Root seems to be very opposed to batting there). His last few innings have been generally very 'correct', he had a very good technique and seems far more suited to that position than Brook.

I agree with your comments, but suspect that Foakes won't play but Moeen will ( and Moeen is a better/ more trusted spinner than Murphy)

 

[tonyw]

Young Ahmed or whoever it may be for the next match or in future needs to be given a fair crack of the whip. Leach isn’t good enough to bowl out a team, and sometimes struggles to dry the runs up from one end. I would like to see us give the young man a chance, but perhaps we will see him feature in India where he will definitely get some assistance.

I was all for Ahmed at the beginning of the summer (and there's many of my posts on here to that effect).

But as has been pointed out, he's having a terrible summer in County cricket.

In the second division of the County Championship, there's currently 80 players who have bowled at least 8 overs......and Rehan is ranked 78th, having taken a total of 6 wickets all summer, at an average of 67.67 and a strike rate of 101.00. I get that performance in the County Championship isn't everything - but your form has to have some bearing on your selection!

I just don't think we have a spin bowler who's worth a place, and plenty of quicks who are. So just pick four of them, and the proper wicket keeper that you do have.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Bairstow opens in the one day game and on that basis they tried Roy to open the batting in a previous Ashes, so I don’t see why Bairstow can’t go in at 3 if he’s going to be retained solely as a specialist batter. He can’t really score any less and it might sharpen up his focus a bit…

 

[Marked Ox]

I think we all agree, that Foakes needs to come in with the gloves. That should of happened before the series, and I was shocked he wasn’t selected.

He’s not a flamboyant batter by any means, but he can sit and dig in Flor a fair amount of time, and score steadily. Bairstow just looks all over the place with bat and gloves.

Ideally you want a wicket that’s going to have something in it for the seamers early on, and after a couple of days the ball starts to turn. That’s when your spinner is supposed to come in and take over an end and potentially skittle out the opposition. I think Swann was a brilliant off spin bowler, and that part of our team has been lacking ever since he decided is was time to retire.

Young Ahmed or whoever it may be for the next match or in future needs to be given a fair crack of the whip. Leach isn’t good enough to bowl out a team, and sometimes struggles to dry the runs up from one end. I would like to see us give the young man a chance, but perhaps we will see him feature in India where he will definitely get some assistance.

Since Ben Stokes has taken over I'd disagree with this:

England v New Zealand: Jack Leach reaps rewards after Ben Stokes' words of encouragement with second Test finely poised

Englands bowlers toiled on a tough fourth day but eventually bowled New Zealand out for 483 runs; Jack Leach took a five-wicket haul as the visitors took the game to the final day with all results still possible.

www.skysports.com

Only Jasprit Bumrah has taken more wickets in away tests since Jack Leach made his debut in 2018. And this includes Joe Root only really using him as a defensive bowler to hold up an end. Stokes uses him as an attacking option and hence he is taking wickets as shown against New Zealand in the above article when he got 5-157 (61.3 overs) in the 2nd innings. Leach got 10 wickets in the 2 match series as many as Stuart Broad and Jimmy Anderson. Neil Wagner was the only one who got more with 11 wickets.

He has a better strike rate in England even with most of it being under Joe Root's captaincy and how he used Leach.

 

[SteMerritt]

No changes for the 4th Test.

England name unchanged squad for fourth Ashes Test

England name an unchanged squad for the fourth Ashes Test at Old Trafford.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Doesn't really surprise me. One of the features of their current approach is that people shouldn't be dropped for failure as long as they fail in the 'correct' way! Robinson, Moeen and Stokes obviously fit enough to be considered, and Bairstow will be OK as long as he wears his glasses and smears some glue on his gloves ...