General Commercial and Marketing

[Steve Gilbert]

Very worthy nominees.

Christ on a bike! I suppose Sue and Michael are easy targets - what's he going to do about the old stuff that appears on ebay?

I've heard of another situation where, following Manning's departure, Benson stopped the sale of match programmes for the cup game against Chelsea U21 in a fit of pique because it contained notes from the ex manager, and he subsequently refused to sell any copies to local 'mega' collectors who were desperate for a copy. The problem is a box had already been passed to Chelsea for their fans and guess what - they appeared on ebay at 50 quid a copy with no benefit to OUFC of any kind!

You seem very angry for a reverend.

 

[Northstandboy]

You seem very angry for a reverend.

Christ on a bike…. He’s allowed to be an angry reverend

 

[RgYellows]

Very worthy nominees.

Christ on a bike! I suppose Sue and Michael are easy targets - what's he going to do about the old stuff that appears on ebay?

I've heard of another situation where, following Manning's departure, Benson stopped the sale of match programmes for the cup game against Chelsea U21 in a fit of pique because it contained notes from the ex manager, and he subsequently refused to sell any copies to local 'mega' collectors who were desperate for a copy. The problem is a box had already been passed to Chelsea for their fans and guess what - they appeared on ebay at 50 quid a copy with no benefit to OUFC of any kind!

Well now I’m in two minds, because cutting off your nose to spite your face as part of a slightly odd crusade to remove even a little bit of Liam Manning from our history is exactly the sort of pettiness I want at the highest levels of our leadership.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Well now I’m in two minds, because cutting off your nose to spite your face as part of a slightly odd crusade to remove even a little bit of Liam Manning from our history is exactly the sort of pettiness I want at the highest levels of our leadership.

Yes definitely, it’s what Elon Musk would have done after all.

 

[Marked Ox]

Christ on a bike…. He’s allowed to be an angry reverend

All fire and Brimstone.

 

[Colin B]

Sorry Colin, but I think that's really unfair. Paul didn't say he doesn't read the forum, simply that he didn't read it much any more. It was a plea for fans to contact us directly with questions etc, as many do. You're misrepresenting what he wrote. But more to the point, there are several of us from OxVox on here quite regularly - myself and @Maurice Earp probably being the most obvious.

We're very aware of the strength of feeling on the issues raised on this thread - forums, which we have continually called for; maintenance of the incredibly successful stalls run by Michael, Sue and colleagues; and this, what shall I say, curious advisory board proposal, about which we know diddly squat. As Paul has written, we've had many challenging discussions with the club - don't mistake the lack of a blow by blow account for a reluctance to engage on behalf of fans.

I'm not misrepresenting anything Trevor.

I'm responding to what I read, and how I interpreted it, and it would seem I'm not alone in interpreting it that way. Paul clearly said, and I quote "I sadly don’t really have the time to go on the Forum much any more."

It came across as self important and dismissive, as if reading the forum was beneath him. That's his choice, his words. People are able to make up their own minds what they think about that.

To finish, I'm really not sure why you're responding on his behalf either (not that I want, or wanted a response), perhaps he's too busy?

 

[SiHath]

As Trev has pointed out, both he and Maurice from the committe post on the forum, I read it but don't post as much as I used to, and we picked up on a couple of things that we felt we should reply to directly.

I speak to lots of fans on match days and also through a various WhattsApp groups and also Twitter, and I can think of only a couple of them who post on the forum, so although it's one place where the club (and OxVox) are discussed, there are lots of other Social media channels for commenting on the club, but it would be a full time job for someone to monitor and respond to every mention of OxVox, hence the request for people to email us directly with concerns, or suggestions etc.

However, since Paul's post the thread seems to have ignored one of the important parts, which is the the implication that OxVox committee members are somehow going to personally benfit financially from the new stadium (something someone messaged me to say was potentially libellous) and we have a conflict of interest:

"It’s also important that any business interests held by committee members relating to the club and its activities are completely transparent."
and
"Not at all, as an independent supporters organisation they need to be truly independent and free from influence either perceived or otherwise.
A bit like MP`s declaration of interests, any of those in charge who, lets say, have a business that interacts with any aspect of the club should say so."
and
"It's tricky to be truly independent when one has one's finger in the stadium pie.
Maybe the Chair of @OxVox would like to clarify that particular/alleged conflict of interest?"

OxVox is independent and will remain independent. We've been supporting the club on the stadium, as we believe that's the right thing for the club, but that doesn't stop us from challenging where we need to, and we are.

There's a big Euromillions jackpot tonight. If I win, perhaps I'll invest in the stadium, but I'll be sure to declare that.

Sadly, I don't think I'll win.

 

[m]

I feel those who have implied impropriety re OxVox should come out and state their beliefs or concerns explicitly.

If there is impropriety, then I don't think you have the right to withhold this information from fellow members and the general support.

If there isn't, well, this raises all kinds of questions.

 

[SiHath]

I feel those who have implied impropriety re OxVox should come out and state their beliefs or concerns explicitly.

That would be helpful. At the moment it feels like an attempt to smear the committee. Why? I've no idea.

 

[Essexyellows]

"OxVox is independent and will remain independent. We've been supporting the club on the stadium, as we believe that's the right thing for the club, but that doesn't stop us from challenging where we need to, and we are."

To be frank I think OxVox are becoming so deeply involved "supporting the club on the stadium" they have taken their collective eye off the ball when it comes to being a critical friend/holding the club to account and also informing their members as to what is going on with the "absentee" owners etc.

Look also at the list of what maybe seemingly minor issues occurring both previously & more recently from closing sections of the stadium to save a few bob, to stopping long serving supporters and fundraisers from recycling old merch.

Have they also "taken on board" that we are customers not supporters?

Are they being sucked in to the "Fans Board" (call it what you like) idea where the structure is almost designed to nullify criticism from any pesky "supporters"?

As it says on the frontpage of the website.............. "We aim to keep fans better informed"....... go on then.

 

[werthersoriginal]

"OxVox is independent and will remain independent. We've been supporting the club on the stadium, as we believe that's the right thing for the club, but that doesn't stop us from challenging where we need to, and we are."

To be frank I think OxVox are becoming so deeply involved "supporting the club on the stadium" they have taken their collective eye off the ball when it comes to being a critical friend/holding the club to account and also informing their members as to what is going on with the "absentee" owners etc.

Look also at the list of what maybe seemingly minor issues occurring both previously & more recently from closing sections of the stadium to save a few bob, to stopping long serving supporters and fundraisers from recycling old merch.

Have they also "taken on board" that we are customers not supporters?

Are they being sucked in to the "Fans Board" (call it what you like) idea where the structure is almost designed to nullify criticism from any pesky "supporters"?

As it says on the frontpage of the website.............. "We aim to keep fans better informed"....... go on then.

You said they had 'their finger in the pie' - that seems to imply they are benefiting financially. Sounds a bit libellous to me though I have no idea about any of this.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

However, since Paul's post the thread seems to have ignored one of the important parts, which is the the implication that OxVox committee members are somehow going to personally benfit financially from the new stadium (something someone messaged me to say was potentially libellous) and we have a conflict of interest:

"It’s also important that any business interests held by committee members relating to the club and its activities are completely transparent."

I’ll take that, since you’re quoting me.

Absolutely zero implications from me that anybody on the committee has benefitted from the stadium project to date.

There are, however, people on the committee with experience and expertise in development, specifically in and around the area where the stadium is intended to be built. If they were to be involved in the project in any way at any later stage once construction (hopefully) begins - whether it be any sort of formal consultation, recommendations of local companies or tradespeople, or any professional capacity what so ever - it would be important that this be declared as and when it occurred.

As for implications that anybody is definitively “going” to benefit from the stadium, that’s certainly not anything I have implied on this thread.

Hope this clears up my comments. I accept the assurances of the committee.

 

[Sarge]

Im an OxVox lifer, and as Ive said before Im appreciative and thankful for all the work Oxvox' elected volunteers do on behalf of their members, associate members and OUFC supporters in general.

The stadium situation has led to said volunteers spare timefor OxVox matters being spread rather thinly- which , perhaps, has seen reporting back on matters that arent stadium related not being mentioned in dispatches of late.

I was more than a bit sceptical initially when OUSP was created, since which OUSP have 9in the main) won me over- again, the OUSP team are volunteers, and work hard to at least raise 'smaller' but none theless significant matters on behalf of supporters, generally involving matchday matters with club representatives. And report back too, albeit the clubs response to issues raised does often appear to be negatively dissmive

Thing is , certainly this season, it appears that the aforementioned club representatives are barely paying lip service to issues raised. This isn't good IMO - it is a waste of everybody's valuable time if as it often appears the club dismiss pretty much any issues raised, and do nothing ( it seems) to address them. Which makes the CEOs 'customers' ( instead of supporters) comment from last seasons Fans Forum appear more poignant and accurate than its subsequently been claimed, giving a real perspective on how we, as supporters seem to be perceived by the club hierarchy. Especially with still no Fans Forum, promised before the end of last season, along with the announced intention of improved communication. Neither has happened.

IF the Ultras hadn't been hounded out, Ive a feeling there would have already been banners aimed at the Directors box on matchdays expressing sis satisfaction with some aspects of how the club is treating supporters.

Hopefully both @OxVox and @OUSP Secretary have read the room so to speak, and will mount a two pronged approach to the club regarding holding that long overdue Fans Forum - Ive a feeling 2.5- 3 hours will be required to allow the profusion of issues to be raised with those who are in a position to respond and provide answers. Personally, as there's the monthly Stand United zoom meetings already happening, Id like to see NO stadium on the Triangle specific issues included in the next Fans Forum.

 

[Upthecowboys]

I interpreted Paul's response in a different way to Colin. Paul has previously replied to posts on here, and other committee members have also responded to Oxvox related comments. I think he makes a fair enough point that if you want a question answered by Oxvox then the easiest way is to email them directly.

As ever when one issue gets raised (in this instance the sale of memorablia by volunteers for an OUFC charity) other issues come to the fore. I think Tim Williams / senior management have got a lot of things right in recent months; off the pitch I thought the new kit releases were slick and I think the club shop has a better range of merchandise. I'm not as sure that the marketing around some games has been good enough (e.g. FAC) but I'm convinced he is deliberatly creating a new and more distant relationship with the fans. It almost at times feels like we are being 'put in our place'.

Perhaps the relationship between some fans and owners / CEOs previously has been a bit too chummy. Perhaps Tim Williams and Grant Ferguson have been slightly scarred by the anger directed at them as they mistakenly kept Robinson on for far too long last season. Whatever the reason may be, the relationship between Williams / Ferguson / The Board and the fans feels more distant than ever. Sure we're all pulling together for anything new stadium related as that is in all our interests, but as far as day to day opeartional stuff is concerned then it just feels at times the fans are an inconvenient necessity.

The lack of a fans forum is the obvious sign that they aren't really interested in interacting with the fans. Their decision to restrict the range of memorabilia on sale for OUFC charitable causes was always going to annoy fans; they'd have known that but they made the decison to do it anyway. The Chelsea programme issue is a relatively minor one, but to not sell them because of Manning's column seems a bit pathetic. Then to make matters worth copies (via Chelsea) end up on ebay and long term programme collectors (long term fans) miss out.

If we weren't doing so well on the pitch then there would probably be a bit more noise about a few things. We know the club read these pages, so how about?

1) January Fans Forum - January's a miserable month, give us something to look forward to! A format I'd like to see for the fans forum is - 2 hours long, club presentation at the start, followed by a mix of questions - that mix being questions from those present, questions submitted in advance and live phone in questions. Streamed on-line. At a previous fans forum I remember donating for a cause (maybe it was for OUFCITC?), why not ask for voluntary donations from those listening in (will help make up for reduced Yellow Army memorabilia sales). If they do it online then the board members living abroad can be present. Could we have a January date booked in before Christmas?

2) Could Adam Benson publish an explanation as to why he has asked for the restriction in the range of merchandise that the Yellow Army can sell? As the decision has been made, the reason must be known - so let's have that reason published within the next week.

3) Chelsea programme sales, why were those restricted? Again the decision has been made, so surely a quick response is possible. It would also be great to know if keen programme collectors could purchase a copy - are any left over?

There is no reason for a club engaged with it's fans not to provide quick updates on the above. The fans forum situation is a joke, as the club set the expectation by suggesting a future forum.

 

[Brahma]

2) Could Adam Benson publish an explanation as to why he has asked for the restriction in the range of merchandise that the Yellow Army can sell? As the decision has been made, the reason must be known - so let's have that reason published within the next week.

I would expect it is to protect the 'OUFC' brand and make sure it isn't associated with counterfeit, poor quality or old merchandise. Good luck thinking he will publish an explanation. He'll no doubt be angered about this thread and social media gossip - hoping it will all go away (which is what was happening as this has been going on since he started in his role) and others who attempt to ask.................., getting lip service. Anyway, well done on raising significant revenue for the club but you can all now 'f*** off!' because we all see our balance sheet heading in the right direction.

As for the Chelsea programmes, that are locked away but were given to some 'Chelsea' to subsequently profiteer on eBay etc, another embarrassing slap in the face of our supporters who collect them.

 

[WuTang]

IF the Ultras hadn't been hounded out, Ive a feeling there would have already been banners aimed at the Directors box on matchdays expressing sis satisfaction with some aspects of how the club is treating supporters.

You have something in mind Sarge? I'll get the old fabrics out

 

[Brahma]

You have something in mind Sarge? I'll get the old fabrics out

TBF, any criticism isn't (IMO) justified to our 'real owners', just those who frequent the club and has seen power go to their heads in the absence of Bakrie, Thohir, Suzy and Horst.

We still paying for bodyguards? Maybe the YA could raise the funds from dodgy stuff to pay for that well-intended expense.

 

[tatabanya]

I would expect it is to protect the 'OUFC' brand and make sure it isn't associated with counterfeit, poor quality or old merchandise. Good luck thinking he will publish an explanation. He'll no doubt be angered about this thread and social media gossip - hoping it will all go away (which is what was happening as this has been going on since he started in his role) and others who attempt to ask.................., getting lip service. Anyway, well done on raising significant revenue for the club but you can all now 'f*** off!' because we all see our balance sheet heading in the right direction.

As for the Chelsea programmes, that are locked away but were given to some 'Chelsea' to subsequently profiteer on eBay etc, another embarrassing slap in the face of our supporters who collect them.

And you just know they’ll be reading the thread and wondering why we’re complaining given the league position, as if it’s all that should matter to the customer

 

[Steve Gilbert]

1 thing I am concerned about is that and the clubs attitude to our fan base has caused this, is that they will try and charge silly prices for tickets at the new stadium to price out the ‘normal’ football fan.
The cost of a season ticket on the survey from memory for a seat behind the goal would cost £500, that is nearly £200 increase in just 2/3 seasons time.

 

[Matt W]

You have something in mind Sarge? I'll get the old fabrics out

Were you responsible for the Ox spearing the Robin? glory days of atmosphere and displays