Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

NorthWestOx said:
As others have said, if Eustace wouldn't drop to Lge 1, there was nothing we could do to get him.
Looks like he was waiting for a Championship job, afterall, as he's now at Blackburn.
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That may well have been the case he was just used to represent the kind of profile I was referring to - I.e. someone who could carry the can day one rather than pick it up after 6 months of swimming in the deep end which is essentially the road we went down.
 
Swaby39 said:
That may well have been the case he was just used to represent the kind of profile I was referring to - I.e. someone who could carry the can day one rather than pick it up after 6 months of swimming in the deep end which is essentially the road we went down.
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What nonsense!.
 
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chromeyellow said:
What nonsense.
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Urm, how? Des was dropped in it, anybody in their right mind can see that, and starting to doggy paddle to the surface. He arrived shy of experience with no automatic back room staff and we did nothing as a club to mitigate either issue, in fact we made it worse and failed to learn from Manning’s influence and re-manufactured a scenario not unlike the one that Karl Robinson used to dismantle us in the first place.

A Eustace/Rowett appointment (as an example is all) would’ve offered us at least a plug and play coaching function that would be more likely to thrive in this environment than the nice guy making his first big step on the ladder, arriving with next to no gravitas on his lonesome. We can visibly see through performances that Des is finding his way but we’ve lost a lot of points waiting for that to come, more than we’d have lost with an established coaching group. To me this is just common sense?
 
Swaby39 said:
Urm, how? Des was dropped in it, anybody in their right mind can see that, and starting to doggy paddle to the surface. He arrived shy of experience with no automatic back room staff and we did nothing as a club to mitigate either issue, in fact we made it worse and failed to learn from Manning’s influence and re-manufactured a scenario not unlike the one that Karl Robinson used to dismantle us in the first place.

A Eustace/Rowett appointment (as an example is all) would’ve offered us at least a plug and play coaching function that would be more likely to thrive in this environment than the nice guy making his first big step on the ladder, arriving on his lonesome. We can visibly see through performances that Des is finding his way but we’ve lost a lot of points waiting for that to come, more than we’d have lost with an established coaching group. To me this is just common sense?
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That is rubbish. It might not be L1 experience but it is still experience.

Also, that is a massive assumption that Eustace/Rowett type of environment would automatically thrive in our club's environment. I don't think Rowett's recent style of football would have fitted our environment at all and he (or any other manager) would still have had to deal with the same injury issues that Des has.
 
One reason its nonsense is because 6 months from the date he was appointed takes us to the 16th of April.

another is because you've no idea how Eustace/Rowett (or any other manager) would have dealt with the injury crisis we were facing.

And if you want to hold Buckingham responsible for everything bad that's happened since he took over what about making him responsible for the massive improvement in Mark Harris's goalscoring record. 6 goals since Buckingham took over -only 3 goals under Manning.

I think both are probably regression to the mean- but I hope with the new signings and the players returning to form we should make the playoffs, which is what was likely under Manning too.
 
Marked Ox said:
That is rubbish. It might not be L1 experience but it is still experience.

Also, that is a massive assumption that Eustace/Rowett type of environment would automatically thrive in our club's environment. I don't think Rowett's recent style of football would have fitted our environment at all and he (or any other manager) would still have had to deal with the same injury issues that Des has.
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We’re looking too much in to the names - in my point they were merely representative of ANY manager (good ones obviously) that understands the EFL through direct management experience and have an established team with them. Whatever credentials Des has, a manager like that arrives immediately as a better fit for the job description the club set out - keep yourself to yourself and get on with everything and anything - you’re on your own. I don’t know why that’s such a bold statement when Manning (who also had a limited squad to work with, much more so than Des has now) clearly did better with those conditions than Des has and the injury crisis excuse is running thinner by the game since he had enough at his disposal to do a lot better than he has at times and now has the best group we’ve had in what, 3 or 4 seasons?. There’s little excuse for the way we’ve played and the points return so far give the standard of the league this year - even Blackpool, as good as they are at home, we’re a shadow of the side that beat us in the play offs.
 
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chromeyellow said:
One reason its nonsense is because 6 months from the date he was appointed takes us to the 16th of April.

another is because you've no idea how Eustace/Rowett (or any other manager) would have dealt with the injury crisis we were facing.

And if you want to hold Buckingham responsible for everything bad that's happened since he took over what about making him responsible for the massive improvement in Mark Harris's goalscoring record. 6 goals since Buckingham took over -only 3 goals under Manning.

I think both are probably regression to the mean- but I hope with the new signings and the players returning to form we should make the playoffs, which is what was likely under Manning too.
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Addressed some in the other reply.

I do think someone with experience would’ve done better through the injury crisis, yes. I believe that fully. There’s an art to that. I also think it will take until April, more likely next season before we see anything resembling a top 3 or 4 side so yes, 6 months for me. Whether it’s too late by then we’ll have to see. The board have gambled - yes, gambled since there is no hard evidence he can do it - that he will rise to the task and that he can marry up his excellent coaching pedigree with managing a big club in tough, lonely conditions.

It’s merely an opinion but I think we’d have faired better to date with a more experienced EFL manager but that’s not to say Des will never succeed here, it’s just going to take longer. Perhaps that’s more sustainable success. Perhaps.

I don’t hold Des responsible for everything. I’m not even pointing the finger at him really, I’m just saying he wasn’t a great fit for what our club expects of its manager in the here and now.
 
We’ve had 3 decent games under his leadership. Burton,Carlisle, and Blackpool. Let’s see how he does on Tuesday against Wigan. Far too early to be saying he’s got it.

I really hope he succeeds by the way. TW and co have rolled the dice, so we either crap out or win with him as leader.
 
Leysboy said:
We’ve had 3 decent games under his leadership. Burton,Carlisle, and Blackpool. Let’s see how he does on Tuesday against Wigan. Far too early to be saying he’s got it.

I really hope he succeeds by the way. TW and co have rolled the dice, so we either crap out or win with him as leader.
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Charlton?
 
chromeyellow said:
One reason its nonsense is because 6 months from the date he was appointed takes us to the 16th of April.

another is because you've no idea how Eustace/Rowett (or any other manager) would have dealt with the injury crisis we were facing.

And if you want to hold Buckingham responsible for everything bad that's happened since he took over what about making him responsible for the massive improvement in Mark Harris's goalscoring record. 6 goals since Buckingham took over -only 3 goals under Manning.

I think both are probably regression to the mean- but I hope with the new signings and the players returning to form we should make the playoffs, which is what was likely under Manning too.
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I agree that both (Oxford Utd's performance since Buckingham took over and Mark Harris' goalscoring record) are likely to be examples of 'regression towards the mean' but I'm not sure that everyone on this forum will necessarily understand this statistical phenomenon... It's nice to see some informed discussion on the forum.
 
Swaby39 said:
We’re looking too much in to the names - in my point they were merely representative of ANY manager (good ones obviously) that understands the EFL through direct management experience and have an established team with them. Whatever credentials Des has, a manager like that arrives immediately as a better fit for the job description the club set out - keep yourself to yourself and get on with everything and anything - you’re on your own. I don’t know why that’s such a bold statement when Manning (who also had a limited squad to work with, much more so than Des has now) clearly did better with those conditions than Des has and the injury crisis excuse is running thinner by the game since he had enough at his disposal to do a lot better than he has at times and now has the best group we’ve had in what, 3 or 4 seasons?. There’s little excuse for the way we’ve played and the points return so far give the standard of the league this year - even Blackpool, as good as they are at home, we’re a shadow of the side that beat us in the play offs.
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Manning had a summer to work with the team and was able to bring a lot of his own players. A number of those who haven't shone, like McEachran were brough in by Manning.

The reason why the injury crisis excuse is no longer valid is because 5 players returned from injury. If they were still injured we would still have an injury crisis. We have alos made some excellent signings, and I agree we now have a better group of players thaan we have had for a while.

But we did have an injury crisis. And an injury crisis when you're playing two games a week is likely to affect results.
 
Swaby39 said:
Addressed some in the other reply.

I do think someone with experience would’ve done better through the injury crisis, yes. I believe that fully. There’s an art to that. I also think it will take until April, more likely next season before we see anything resembling a top 3 or 4 side so yes, 6 months for me. Whether it’s too late by then we’ll have to see. The board have gambled - yes, gambled since there is no hard evidence he can do it - that he will rise to the task and that he can marry up his excellent coaching pedigree with managing a big club in tough, lonely conditions.

It’s merely an opinion but I think we’d have faired better to date with a more experienced EFL manager but that’s not to say Des will never succeed here, it’s just going to take longer. Perhaps that’s more sustainable success. Perhaps.

I don’t hold Des responsible for everything. I’m not even pointing the finger at him really, I’m just saying he wasn’t a great fit for what our club expects of its manager in the here and now.
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So you were against his appointment? Lots on here were overjoyed. Certainly it was a gamble.
 
chromeyellow said:
Manning had a summer to work with the team and was able to bring a lot of his own players. A number of those who haven't shone, like McEachran were brough in by Manning.

The reason why the injury crisis excuse is no longer valid is because 5 players returned from injury. If they were still injured we would still have an injury crisis. We have alos made some excellent signings, and I agree we now have a better group of players thaan we have had for a while.

But we did have an injury crisis. And an injury crisis when you're playing two games a week is likely to affect results.
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I don’t think for a minute that Manning felt completely happy with the squad he entered the season with. It was a marked improvement on what finished the last but it was still short on numbers, carrying young players occupying key roles and still far too much of the squad was injury prone.

You’re conveniently forgetting that Manning walked in to the most broken dressing room our club has had in some time and managed to make them hard to beat overnight. That’s the like for like comparison - what was their immediate impact? They’ve now both had a full window too (albeit very different ones by nature).

Des walked in to a very, very difficult challenge. I said it then and I’ll say it again, it was one of the most attractive but difficult jobs that would come up in the EFL this year. You’re making out like I think he’s a hopeless waste of space. Far from it, he’s just a slow burn owing to a poor fit. He wasn’t the right choice in my opinion and is having to self-teach himself how to make a go of it. He will get there but it looks likely to cost us a throughly good chance of automatic promotion which perhaps could’ve been salvaged by a more ready-made appointment.
 
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