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You're an interesting guy @Wandering Yellow and you make your points well. I fundamentally disagree with you but that doesn't make me right. There is a kernel of truth in what you say but many MPs do live in areas like ours (again I point to Anneliese Dodds who lives in Rose Hill and when I lived in London I was two streets away from Ed Davey (who I dont support but who I think is by and large a good guy) and it wasnt a posh area.

On the tyranny of the majority point I dont think the only alternative is that minorities govern everything (that would be wrong and lead to lots of anger). My point is that with too many referenda a) it's not a good way of dealing with complexity and we all know the world is complex at the moment and b) it can become a popularity contest which isnt what democracy is for me. Sometimes political dedicsions need to be made that arent popular for the good of the country (and take into account minority views).

Where I agree with you 100% is that more power should be devolved for communities to manage themselves.

It's so important for the good of society that people debate this stuff which is why it's good that you and I are discussing it and disagreeing agreeably.
Conceptually I can't argue with a lot of what you say. It's obvious from the way you write you're an intelligent person.

I think from working more 'inside' politics when I was fresh out of university, it really sucked away any faith or enthusiasm I had for political systems and politicians. I found Westminster a frustrating place. Mountains of civil servants, slow, immovable, uninspiring. Many people I met, I saw personally as disconnected from the realities of people like small business owners or office workers, whilst simultaneously claiming to care deeply about those people.

I'm probably far too cynical about politics, to the point I frustrate people on here for failing to see what they see as an obvious fact that Trump is worse than Biden. They're probably correct, but it's the system that absolutely frustrates me and kills my enthusiasm and passion for politics. Having seen Westminster, I have zero faith Brussels is any better (in fact it seems to have even more bureaucracy and red tape than even the madness of Whitehall) which is why I'm Eurosceptic. But I'm "sceptic" of almost all political institutions.

Some people may see it as childish and not willing to accept authority but my pure gut-feeling is that there must be a better system. People often seem to be waiting for politicians to come and save them, for me that's like believing in things like the tooth fairy.

This thread is specifically about Trump and I'd have no idea how to even go about fixing the mess of their political system. This is probably endlessly-flawed, but I'd love to see these changes in the UK

1) Proportional representation. Get 7% of the votes = get 7% of the seats. I understand the arguments for constituencies but I am very sceptic how much value MPs provide to their constituents.

2) Revolutionise local politics. Give each county a "county election" where they elect a leader who has a budget and power to influence things. I'd love to see more regional pride and tax incentives to encourage local produce and local culture. I don't know how you'd get rid of busybody narcissists like certain local councillors we are aware of, but I'd love to see people genuinely passionate about their community empowered and emboldened.

3) Ten year max terms for MPs. Career politicians turn my stomach. If you believe you can come in and do a good job, you will be fairly paid. But after ten years, your time is up. Politicians saying whatever they need to to get power and becoming political robots would be less of an issue if they knew this wasn't a job for life.

4) It's often assumed people in power are experts of intelligent. It's not true. I'd like to see a system where you have to be genuinely competent. Ministry of defence? Have to have a background in the army. Department of health? Have to have been a nurse, GP, surgeon, someone with actual experience in the system. Department for education? A former school teacher or headmaster/headmistress, someone who's been there and done it. The merry-go-round of career politician narcissists in the Cabinet is totally ludicrous.
 
1) Proportional representation. Get 7% of the votes = get 7% of the seats. I understand the arguments for constituencies but I am very sceptic how much value MPs provide to their constituents.
This is one of the very few things that you'll get no argument on this forum for suggesting. It'll never happen unfortunately, because the government (whichever colour of rosette it may be) will have got into power with 35-45% of the vote, never a majority, hence will be unlikely to do it. And when we did have a watered-down suggestion to have a referendum on, the press went all in against it and killed it off.
 
I think we just have a fundamental disagreement on how much we trust politicians to make honest decisions on behalf of the people.

I believe in the wisdom of the crowd theory. I trust the normal, working British public to make more sensible decisions than 650 largely self-interested MPs most of which have never grafted a day in their life and don't live in the type of areas we do.

On your second point, tyranny of the majority is what democracy basically is. Is it perfect? no. Is it way better than tyranny of the minority? yes. I am a huge supporter of referendums and I wish we had more and they were a more common part of our political life.

Give more power to the public, to communities to manage themselves, and less to self-interested and self-serving elites. Hyperbole maybe but that's just my worldview.
Can the public be trusted to make decisions, though? The public are highly emotional and will make decisions in accordance with said emotions, regardless of the potential consequences. I don't think politicians or the public can be trusted to make decisions based on fact/proof of improved long term outcomes rather than just how they personally feel about something.
 
Democracy is a flawed system. People shouldn't make all of the decisions because they are stupid and the people elected to make decisions tend to be self serving narcissists, the very idea that somebody wants to become PM should really disqualify them from doing it.

No system will ever be perfect, they can be improved upon. I would make some kind of rule that any elected politicians can't have another job, any business interests, any investments and have yearly financial audits done on them and their families to make sure their personal wealth isn't increasing while they are in office and for the next 10 years out of office.
 
Democracy is a flawed system. People shouldn't make all of the decisions because they are stupid and the people elected to make decisions tend to be self serving narcissists, the very idea that somebody wants to become PM should really disqualify them from doing it.

No system will ever be perfect, they can be improved upon. I would make some kind of rule that any elected politicians can't have another job, any business interests, any investments and have yearly financial audits done on them and their families to make sure their personal wealth isn't increasing while they are in office and for the next 10 years out of office.
Preach.
 
1) Proportional representation. Get 7% of the votes = get 7% of the seats. I understand the arguments for constituencies but I am very sceptic how much value MPs provide to their constituents.

2) Revolutionise local politics. Give each county a "county election" where they elect a leader who has a budget and power to influence things. I'd love to see more regional pride and tax incentives to encourage local produce and local culture. I don't know how you'd get rid of busybody narcissists like certain local councillors we are aware of, but I'd love to see people genuinely passionate about their community empowered and emboldened.

3) Ten year max terms for MPs. Career politicians turn my stomach. If you believe you can come in and do a good job, you will be fairly paid. But after ten years, your time is up. Politicians saying whatever they need to to get power and becoming political robots would be less of an issue if they knew this wasn't a job for life.

4) It's often assumed people in power are experts of intelligent. It's not true. I'd like to see a system where you have to be genuinely competent. Ministry of defence? Have to have a background in the army. Department of health? Have to have been a nurse, GP, surgeon, someone with actual experience in the system. Department for education? A former school teacher or headmaster/headmistress, someone who's been there and done it. The merry-go-round of career politician narcissists in the Cabinet is totally ludicrous.
Very interesting four points. To be honest I could get on board with all four
 

โ€˜I could incite a riot once and get away with it because the wheels of justice donโ€™t move fast enough to catch me. Why not do it again?โ€™

Itโ€™s just so depressing that a life spent being a arrogant, rude, self absorbed braggart is rewarded by not just being president once but - and with a litany of crimes against his name and unwanted โ€˜firstsโ€™ for US presidents - is the best the GOP can put forward again in 2024.
 

โ€˜I could incite a riot once and get away with it because the wheels of justice donโ€™t move fast enough to catch me. Why not do it again?โ€™

Itโ€™s just so depressing that a life spent being a arrogant, rude, self absorbed braggart is rewarded by not just being president once but - and with a litany of crimes against his name and unwanted โ€˜firstsโ€™ for US presidents - is the best the GOP can put forward again in 2024.
So depressing. Also depressing that there isnโ€™t a better Democrat candidate that would make Trump irrelevant
 
Heโ€™s Putinโ€™s puppet.

How much money have the Russians invested in him?
 
So depressing. Also depressing that there isnโ€™t a better Democrat candidate that would make Trump irrelevant
Biden was elected on an 'anyone but trump ' basis...
Now the democrats need an 'anyone but biden' nominee to do the same.

I do find it unfathomable that a country that positions itself as the bastion of democracy and the free world can spend billions of dollars on presenting these two wholly unsuitable candidates as the only choice for president...

...matched only in incredulity that most of the population don't seem to mind...
 
And Biden has been deemed "mentally unable" to answer questions about where he took confidential documents.

The Hur report, released Thursday, assessed Biden as too senile to be prosecuted over his wrongful retention of classified documents and noted the commander-in-chief โ€œdid not remember when he was vice presidentโ€ and โ€œdid not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau diedโ€ over two days of interviews in October.

What world we live in. :rolleyes:
 
4) It's often assumed people in power are experts of intelligent. It's not true. I'd like to see a system where you have to be genuinely competent. Ministry of defence? Have to have a background in the army. Department of health? Have to have been a nurse, GP, surgeon, someone with actual experience in the system. Department for education? A former school teacher or headmaster/headmistress, someone who's been there and done it. The merry-go-round of career politician narcissists in the Cabinet is totally ludicrous.

Sometimes it takes an outsider to solve problems, just appointing from within just perpetuates old thinking.
 
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