National News Extinction "Rebellion"

[LowerSouth]

Ironic isn’t it, all these protesters about the climate holding up traffic and in doing so causing more fuel pollution and emissions…

That’s before you take in the bigger considerations like delaying services like the ambulances and fire brigade.

I get they want to make a point but there is other ways to go about it. By carrying on like they are then they don’t get the public backing and their points are lost.

What “other ways” would accelerate the cause and not alienate the public ?

 

[Oslernorth]

Lots of events cause traffic jams and hold up the emergency services, without any of these points ever being raised.

 

[Scotchegg]

It feels like a growing number of people have genuine concerns for the future of the planet, but not enough to completely overhaul their lifestyle.

At the same time we have a political landscape that where people desperately want change, but have maybe lost faith in the major parties.

If the Greens were able to develop a credible vision of how to Govern, but with a marginal gains approach to environmental change, they could become a real credible option for some. Stopping Oil, banning cars and air travel etc isn't realistic. But we could do a hell of a lot better not only for our country but to be a global leader in green policies.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

I get they want to make a point but there is other ways to go about it. By carrying on like they are then they don’t get the public backing and their points are lost.

Wow. For a postie who was on strike just the other week to come out with this is mind-blowing double standards.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Wow. For a postie who was on strike just the other week to come out with this is mind-blowing double standards.

Do I think Royal Mail and the CWU could handle things better without striking, absolutely. Do I think the strikes are working? No.
I am massively losing out financially due to the strikes and would rather the powers that be sat round a table and spoke like adults. Unfortunately with the strikes you have to go with it unless you want to make your life truly hell in work for many many years.

As for the greens, I get the point they are making. I try and help the environment as much as I can having been brought up in a family who always vote for the Green Party.

But even they say they are going about things the wrong way. Public damage and super gluing yourself to things isn’t the way IMO.

 

[QR]

... while many, many people will be late getting home, getting to work and generally inconvenienced and all for what?

As me old mum used to say 'it's better for you to be 30 minutes late for work, than the earth be 4 billion years early for extinction'...... or something like that.

 

[bashamwonderland]

What “other ways” would accelerate the cause and not alienate the public ?

That sentence suggests that the current methods are accelerating "the cause"?

I doubt many normal people have been persuaded to redouble their efforts by these protests. That is evidenced by the small number of people taking part in the protests and the general disgust with which they are discussed.

 

[Essexyellows]

Whether "they" like it or not we, as a species, became reliant on oil very, very quickly without thought or knowledge of consequences.

And fossil fuels have made our life better since before the Industrial Revolution, when the first fire was lit in a cave that was the start of warmth & comfort.

To wean us off that reliance is going to take a very, very long time because almost everything we do is reliant on fossil fuels.

I`m no climate change denier - still harvesting tomatoes in mid October is evidence enough of that and the seasons have definitely shifted in my life time.

What annoys me is that these people can not see or understand how much we have already improved.

I can remember driving "Up North" passing opencast mines, power stations & factories spewing "muck" into the atmosphere, you could taste it and see it.

Things have changed and they will change that is progress and evolution.

Blocking a road won`t make it happen any faster and will only serve to alienate many people.

If we all do our "bit" we will achieve far more for the future than some freak causing criminal damage.

 

[Leysboy]

Let them stay up there, and the elements will take care of the eco loons.

Open up the bridge and carry on as normal.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

True 3 years ago, true now.

The only difference is we've now got 5.5 years to the tipping point, not 8.

Wake up folks!

 

[OUFCGav]

Whether "they" like it or not we, as a species, became reliant on oil very, very quickly without thought or knowledge of consequences.

And fossil fuels have made our life better since before the Industrial Revolution, when the first fire was lit in a cave that was the start of warmth & comfort.

To wean us off that reliance is going to take a very, very long time because almost everything we do is reliant on fossil fuels.

I`m no climate change denier - still harvesting tomatoes in mid October is evidence enough of that and the seasons have definitely shifted in my life time.

What annoys me is that these people can not see or understand how much we have already improved.

I can remember driving "Up North" passing opencast mines, power stations & factories spewing "muck" into the atmosphere, you could taste it and see it.

Things have changed and they will change that is progress and evolution.

Blocking a road won`t make it happen any faster and will only serve to alienate many people.

If we all do our "bit" we will achieve far more for the future than some freak causing criminal damage.

"What annoys me is that these people can not see or understand how much we have already improved."
That is like saying the driver of a car heading to a cliff at 100mph should be congratulated because they have slowed it down from 120mph.

But don't worry, the Tories new laws will criminalise whispering at protest if anyone says they are bothered by the "noise"

 

[Essexyellows]

Just seen a video of folk on the riverside launching fireworks at the protesters on the QE2 bridge last night.............

Those same protestors in their hi-vizs, clothes & safety equipment made from, made by and transported by ......... oil.

Wake up folks!

I think most of us do understand and mitigate our impact to some degree and we can probably reach a rare agreement on that.
From choosing to shop packaging free, eating less meat to recycling more and having decent insulation etc.
I don`t need some "eco-taliban warrior" making my choices for me.
Using one of the many online calculators we know our average Co2 emission is around 5.52 tons, would do a lot of folk good to check theirs.

"What annoys me is that these people can not see or understand how much we have already improved."
That is like saying the driver of a car heading to a cliff at 100mph should be congratulated because they have slowed it down from 120mph.

But don't worry, the Tories new laws will criminalise whispering at protest if anyone says they are bothered by the "noise"

To use your anecdote - if the traffic (us) in front of said driver had already slowed down and they couldn`t reach that speed.

Its not going to change overnight in the same way it didn`t happen overnight.

Now lets talk about how to make a huge impact - population control.

Oh no!! We can`t do that we need more people for the economic ponzi scheme.

 

[Paul Cannell]

What annoys me is that these people can not see or understand how much we have already improved.

I can remember driving "Up North" passing opencast mines, power stations & factories spewing "muck" into the atmosphere, you could taste it and see it.

Things have changed and they will change that is progress and evolution.

Points of order:

The climate crisis is not about 1 country.

Driving up north (coal): certainly the overall ambience of driving to the north-east looks and smells better than it did in the 70s and 80s. This is because coal production vortually ceased, with industry (there's still some, you know) switching to gas and oil, and power generation to gas and trees (look if you want at Drax's 'carbon-neutral scam based on burning trees shipped from america). Coal production has grown hugely across the world, with China, eastern Europe, India and Indonesia (naming a random few) becoming bigger producers than the UK ever was. Go and smell Delhi. Coal is a bigger global threat now than ever.

Driving up north (windscreen): you might recall having to stop halfway in the warmer months to clear the windscreen of bugs. You don't now. Because primarily of pollution, pesticides and industrial agricultural practices insect populations (followed by birds and animals) have dropped by about 9 tenths. UK farming is unsustainable, and the rest of the world is either ahead of us or following.

We is not the UK. The world is one place and I'm surprised anyone doesn't think the world is very, very sick. As a species we can 'progress and evolve'to destruction or not. Polite discussion won't change a thing - look at COP in the UK, and the upcoming farce at Sharm el Sheikh.

If we all do our "bit" we will achieve far more for the future than some freak causing criminal damage.

But 'we' aren't. 70% of animals fewer on the planet in 50 years. Climate catastrophes a weekly event, wars over water, wars over land.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

It does feel like we’re living in a time where, in years to come when everything has gone to pot and we’re in total climate meltdown, people will look back and say ‘What the hell were they thinking? Why didn’t they DO anything?!’

The problem is that people aged 40-60+ know, deep down, that it won’t really affect them. And they happen to be the ones with all of the money/power.

 

[Essexyellows]

Points of order:

The climate crisis is not about 1 country.

Driving up north (coal): certainly the overall ambience of driving to the north-east looks and smells better than it did in the 70s and 80s. This is because coal production vortually ceased, with industry (there's still some, you know) switching to gas and oil, and power generation to gas and trees (look if you want at Drax's 'carbon-neutral scam based on burning trees shipped from america). Coal production has grown hugely across the world, with China, eastern Europe, India and Indonesia (naming a random few) becoming bigger producers than the UK ever was. Go and smell Delhi. Coal is a bigger global threat now than ever.

Driving up north (windscreen): you might recall having to stop halfway in the warmer months to clear the windscreen of bugs. You don't now. Because primarily of pollution, pesticides and industrial agricultural practices insect populations (followed by birds and animals) have dropped by about 9 tenths. UK farming is unsustainable, and the rest of the world is either ahead of us or following.

We is not the UK. The world is one place and I'm surprised anyone doesn't think the world is very, very sick. As a species we can 'progress and evolve'to destruction or not. Polite discussion won't change a thing - look at COP in the UK, and the upcoming farce at Sharm el Sheikh.




But 'we' aren't. 70% of animals fewer on the planet in 50 years. Climate catastrophes a weekly event, wars over water, wars over land.

Point of order accepted.

Taking one point . industrial farming - is created by a need to feed more people as economically as possible.
We shop local and eat seasonally, which I may have mentioned before, and been called out as being "lucky to be able too".

Now I know a lot of farmers who are all doing their bit for nature, in the UK.
Sadly that won`t make a jot of difference to those people ignoring deforestation and water consumption on the other side of the world so they can have their "smashed avocado on toast" and a coffee with a nut based "milk".

Many people making tiny changes will make a difference.

 

[bashamwonderland]

I like to imagine that everyone telling everyone else to "wake up" (we all already understand climate change is happening) have sold their cars, quit buying new or imported goods, and become vegan.

No? Oh.

 

[mooro]

The problem here is that there are two distinct arguments going on...

The big picture - the earth is hurtling towards oblivion unless things change....

The immediate picture - direct protests disrupting daily lives...

To me, it is too simplistic to use the first to justify the second, because there is a massive disconnect between the two.

By that, I mean that individually many people are taking steps, some small, some larger (some not at all) to adapt their behaviour to help the cause and need to be encouraged to keep doing so and to go further.

That will be achieved by bringing the population 'with' the campaign (education, encouragement, goodwill, momentum, achievable & quantifiable steps) NOT by indiscriminately making their lives harder, causing MORE energy use and just p1ssing them off.

These individual changes may or may not save the planet on their own, but they will help and can also provide the momentum for change at a higher level.

However, if the aim of this action is to drive that change at a higher level, which I imagine is the case, then it is not going to work.

By alienating the population, they are disabling the pressure for change that popular support would provide. If the people are behind a campaign then change will happen (for PR reasons, if nothing else), but if they aren't (or aren't behind the methods used) then that allows the big boys to justify their current policies/pace for change amid language of 'not giving in to terrorists' etc.

Many causes have set themselves backwards by going too far, or screaming too loud, and this is in severe danger of being the latest

 

[Essexyellows]

The problem here is that there are two distinct arguments going on...

The big picture - the earth is hurtling towards oblivion unless things change....

The immediate picture - direct protests disrupting daily lives...

To me, it is too simplistic to use the first to justify the second, because there is a massive disconnect between the two.

By that, I mean that individually many people are taking steps, some small, some larger (some not at all) to adapt their behaviour to help the cause and need to be encouraged to keep doing so and to go further.

That will be achieved by bringing the population 'with' the campaign (education, encouragement, goodwill, momentum, achievable & quantifiable steps) NOT by indiscriminately making their lives harder, causing MORE energy use and just p1ssing them off.

These individual changes may or may not save the planet on their own, but they will help and can also provide the momentum for change at a higher level.

However, if the aim of this action is to drive that change at a higher level, which I imagine is the case, then it is not going to work.

By alienating the population, they are disabling the pressure for change that popular support would provide. If the people are behind a campaign then change will happen (for PR reasons, if nothing else), but if they aren't (or aren't behind the methods used) then that allows the big boys to justify their current policies/pace for change amid language of 'not giving in to terrorists' etc.

Many causes have set themselves backwards by going too far, or screaming too loud, and this is in severe danger of being the latest

Amen to that!!

 

[Oslernorth]

I like to imagine that everyone telling everyone else to "wake up" (we all already understand climate change is happening) have sold their cars, quit buying new or imported goods, and become vegan.

No? Oh.

Market forces won’t allow that to happen. If the Government put the ban on one use plastics, polluting cars energy and food ect. Then market forces will move in to fill the void with cars, food and imported goods that are not banned.

If you do it on a personal level you life will just grind to a holt in most cases.

The Government wont do this because they are lobbied by large organisations to enact their interests over yours.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Market forces won’t allow that to happen. If the Government put the ban on one use plastics, polluting cars energy and food ect. Then market forces will move in to fill the void with cars, food and imported goods that are not banned.

If you do it on a personal level you life will just grind to a holt in most cases.

The Government wont do this because they are lobbied by large organisations to enact their interests over yours.

Market forces? You can quit buying new or imported goods right now. The second hand market is enormous and can provide almost anything you want if you are willing to use it.

You can sell your car right now and move to public transport or a scooter, or if you need your car (because of kids) you can maintain it properly with annual servicing and run it to it's death after 200,000 miles.

You can become vegan right now for no extra cost. Turn your entire garden (if you're lucky enough to have one) to food production.

But if you're going to sit on your sofa telling people to "wake up" and sympathise with protestors pointlessly ruining ordinary people's lives, then you better be sure to have put your own house in order first!