International News Black Lives Matter

[QR]

Oh you're back. On Saturday you got in on a conversation I was having with someone else, to tell me I was wrong to conflate the UK and US BLM messages. I was asking you if @UKBLM was the recognised UK arm of BLM because their Twitter page seemed to suggest that they were. You disagreed and then went silent on me.

You never got back to me with an answer.

And that's the problem with posters like you and YT. You arrive, drop a vague accusation or opinion, and then when someone actually tries to engage you, you both disappear.

So forgive me if I ignore both you and YT from now on.

Hey, there you go again. Change the subject when your agreements crash against the rocks AGAIN.

I did answer. I said the BLM movement is different from any organisation that may have hijacked the three words BLM. There is no recognised UK arm of BLM other than in the heads of those that run the organisations.

 

[Scotchegg]

I haven't yet seen the evidence of Jesus bringing anyone back to life.

However, there is evidence to show that those with strong religious beliefs tend to live longer with terminal illnesses than those without faith.

Not massively relevant to the usual debates on here but thought I'd throw it in!!

 

[Essexyellows]

I think @beyondthefourth was using the term abuse in its more general sense.

Worrying how @Essexyellows seizes on the term to repeat a well worn racist trope- that child sexual abuse is more common in one community than another and that this has anything to do with “positive discrimination“... or race becoming “ a get out of jail free card”

It’s more likely that race is a “ police smash your windows stop and search you disproportionately and put you in jail” card...

Sorry old fruit, it is not "racist trope" its fact of the matter.
Do some research, learn that some cultures like to bring their habits with them rather than abiding by our laws and decency.

"Studies on those involved in grooming children do suggest that a disproportionate number of offenders are categorised as being of Asian ethnicity. The proportion of offenders or suspected offenders varies from study to study, but was anywhere from 27% to 75% in the studies we looked at. "

What do we know about the ethnicity of people involved in sexual offences against children? - Full Fact

The information we have about the ethnicity of those involved in sexual grooming and sexual offences against children more widely is patchy and has a lot of problems.

fullfact.org

"Using broad groupings, all ethnicities were represented in the sample, however, a disproportionate number of offenders were reported as Asian. Of the 52 groups for which usable ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50%) comprised all Asian offenders, 11 (21%) all white offenders, 9 (17%) groups comprised offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8%) comprised all black offenders and there were 2 (4%) groups of exclusively Arab offenders. Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was provided for type 1 offending, a total of 75% were categorised as Asian, 17% were categorised as white, and the remaining 8% were categorised as black (5%) or Arab (3%)."

https://www.basw.co.uk/system/files/resources/basw_34939-8_0.pdf#page=19

"In August 2014 the Jay report concluded that an estimated 1,400 children, most of them white British girls, had been sexually abused in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013 by predominantly British-Pakistani men (Kurdish and Kosovar men were also involved) "

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rochdale- 47 victims of abuse by 19 British Pakistani men.

Sajid Javid in 2018, saying high-profile cases included a “high proportion of men of Pakistani heritage” and that “cultural reasons” could be at play.

Almost 19,000 children sexually groomed in England in year, official figures suggest

Exclusive: Campaigners call for action as Sajid Javid’s promised review of grooming gang ‘characteristics’ absent from Queen's Speech

www.independent.co.uk

Nope just "racist trope" or something that doesn`t suit the Far Left/Marxist/BLM agenda.

 

[QR]

However, there is evidence to show that those with strong religious beliefs tend to live longer with terminal illnesses than those without faith.

Not massively relevant to the usual debates on here but thought I'd throw it in!!

Must be their fear of hell.

 

[Gary Baldi]

I've seen a lot of videos of "Police abuse" online and it's worth mentioning that 2 mins of Police interacting with a suspect from another persons mobile at the time of arrest or physical contact, is prone to being edited or missing the important parts to perhaps show someone in a more sympathetic light or whatever.

When available, Police body cam footage is a more informatiuve watch as you get to see the whole thing, unedited, unfiltered and without the social commentary. It is a useful teaching tool for Police and the public.

Which is why it is so curious that it seems the George Floyd arrest footage hasn't been released or leaked. Atlanta PD, for their deficiencies, posted the arrest video in the recent death and it shows a more mixed and nuanced thing than the media/activists screamed about when it first came out.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Not nearly as much of it backed up with video recording of a multitude of incidents.

When you are making the same claims as BLM do, about systemic and institutionalised global racism, you need to come with more than just unspecified claims about video footage (which in fairness probably do display isolated incidents of racism).

If this is more than just an issue with certain enclaves of law and order, and instead really is a systemic global crisis (as BLM believe) then there needs to be evidence for that belief. And it needs to be evidence that goes beyond simple correlation i.e. "X black people get certain jobs compared to Y white people so that's racism".

 

[YellowTaxi]

Good Lord - the gang's all here!

 

[YellowTaxi]

And I suggest you reread that article you posted carefully @Essexyellows because it doesn't say what you think it says

Why would someone be so keen to post unreliable or inaccurate information I wonder....

 

[beyondthefourth]

When you are making the same claims as BLM do, about systemic and institutionalised global racism, you need to come with more than just unspecified claims about video footage (which in fairness probably do display isolated incidents of racism).

If this is more than just an issue with certain enclaves of law and order, and instead really is a systemic global crisis (as BLM believe) then there needs to be evidence for that belief. And it needs to be evidence that goes beyond simple correlation i.e. "X black people get certain jobs compared to Y white people so that's racism".

Implicit racial bias and the anatomy of institutional racism | Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk

I feel that's a good starting point for understanding the inherent bias that even well-intentioned people can show when dealing with different races.

 

[bazzer9461]

Sorry old fruit, it is not "racist trope" its fact of the matter.
Do some research, learn that some cultures like to bring their habits with them rather than abiding by our laws and decency.

"Studies on those involved in grooming children do suggest that a disproportionate number of offenders are categorised as being of Asian ethnicity. The proportion of offenders or suspected offenders varies from study to study, but was anywhere from 27% to 75% in the studies we looked at. "

What do we know about the ethnicity of people involved in sexual offences against children? - Full Fact

The information we have about the ethnicity of those involved in sexual grooming and sexual offences against children more widely is patchy and has a lot of problems.

fullfact.org

"Using broad groupings, all ethnicities were represented in the sample, however, a disproportionate number of offenders were reported as Asian. Of the 52 groups for which usable ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50%) comprised all Asian offenders, 11 (21%) all white offenders, 9 (17%) groups comprised offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8%) comprised all black offenders and there were 2 (4%) groups of exclusively Arab offenders. Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was provided for type 1 offending, a total of 75% were categorised as Asian, 17% were categorised as white, and the remaining 8% were categorised as black (5%) or Arab (3%)."

https://www.basw.co.uk/system/files/resources/basw_34939-8_0.pdf#page=19

"In August 2014 the Jay report concluded that an estimated 1,400 children, most of them white British girls, had been sexually abused in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013 by predominantly British-Pakistani men (Kurdish and Kosovar men were also involved) "

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rochdale- 47 victims of abuse by 19 British Pakistani men.

Sajid Javid in 2018, saying high-profile cases included a “high proportion of men of Pakistani heritage” and that “cultural reasons” could be at play.

Almost 19,000 children sexually groomed in England in year, official figures suggest

Exclusive: Campaigners call for action as Sajid Javid’s promised review of grooming gang ‘characteristics’ absent from Queen's Speech

www.independent.co.uk

Nope just "racist trope" or something that doesn`t suit the Far Left/Marxist/BLM agenda.

Hang on a minute @Essexyellows i sort of had a moan 3/4 years ago about the ethnicity of the grooming gangs being predominantly Asian and I got shouted down and someone even said that there were white grooming gangs but the press don’t report these so called White grooming gangs.

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

Sorry old fruit, it is not "racist trope" its fact of the matter.
Do some research, learn that some cultures like to bring their habits with them rather than abiding by our laws and decency.

"Studies on those involved in grooming children do suggest that a disproportionate number of offenders are categorised as being of Asian ethnicity. The proportion of offenders or suspected offenders varies from study to study, but was anywhere from 27% to 75% in the studies we looked at. "

What do we know about the ethnicity of people involved in sexual offences against children? - Full Fact

The information we have about the ethnicity of those involved in sexual grooming and sexual offences against children more widely is patchy and has a lot of problems.

fullfact.org

"Using broad groupings, all ethnicities were represented in the sample, however, a disproportionate number of offenders were reported as Asian. Of the 52 groups for which usable ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50%) comprised all Asian offenders, 11 (21%) all white offenders, 9 (17%) groups comprised offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8%) comprised all black offenders and there were 2 (4%) groups of exclusively Arab offenders. Of the 306 offenders whose ethnicity was provided for type 1 offending, a total of 75% were categorised as Asian, 17% were categorised as white, and the remaining 8% were categorised as black (5%) or Arab (3%)."

https://www.basw.co.uk/system/files/resources/basw_34939-8_0.pdf#page=19

"In August 2014 the Jay report concluded that an estimated 1,400 children, most of them white British girls, had been sexually abused in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013 by predominantly British-Pakistani men (Kurdish and Kosovar men were also involved) "

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rochdale- 47 victims of abuse by 19 British Pakistani men.

Sajid Javid in 2018, saying high-profile cases included a “high proportion of men of Pakistani heritage” and that “cultural reasons” could be at play.

Almost 19,000 children sexually groomed in England in year, official figures suggest

Exclusive: Campaigners call for action as Sajid Javid’s promised review of grooming gang ‘characteristics’ absent from Queen's Speech

www.independent.co.uk

Nope just "racist trope" or something that doesn`t suit the Far Left/Marxist/BLM agenda.

Stop bringing researched facts into this next thing you will be telling me is white Europeans commit less acts of FGM compared to other communities. You racist xenophobe. ?

 

[QR]

So reading the article sounds like a failure to stop then try the age old I have a kid in the car excuse. Don't see cuffing the driver of a car that failed to stop is racist. I've never been cuffed but then I never failed to stop when asked to by police.

'Dos Santos, who plans to meet lawyers on Monday, said he had been stopped by police as many as 15 times since they changed their car to a Mercedes in November 2017.'

15 times!
Either he's lying, he drives on the wrong side of the road a lot or he was targeted... for some reason (?). It's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out.

 

[cassox]

'Dos Santos, who plans to meet lawyers on Monday, said he had been stopped by police as many as 15 times since they changed their car to a Mercedes in November 2017.'

15 times!
Either he's lying, he drives on the wrong side of the road a lot or he was targeted... for some reason (?). It's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out.

bought it off a drug dealer i would say

 

[Marked Ox]

Police should just be able to frame people like they did in the old days.

Football fans too.

In fact anyone.

The police know who’s guilty and who’s innocent.

Police aren’t racist or biased - in fact they’re just like people on this forum, always open to another’s point of view, even if it’s unpopular.

All police aren't racist or biased etc or do you think they all identical? Quite a generalisation there.

 

[YellowTaxi]

I think some police are racist and biased Some aren’t of course. there is considerable evidence going back to Lord Scarman in the 1980s that some institutions are racist, And institutions tend to protect their own even when they are out of order.

No police officer has spent a single days in prison for the death of anyone in custody black or white got over 50 years .

From my experience as a football supporter I would not be happy for any police officer to decide who’s guilty and who’s innocent.

 

[Yellow River]

I think some police are racist and biased Some aren’t of course. there is considerable evidence going back to Lord Scarman in the 1980s that some institutions are racist, And institutions tend to protect their own even when they are out of order.
No police officer has spent a single days in prison for the death of anyone in custody black or white got over 50 years .

From my experience as a football supporter I would not be happy for any police officer to decide who’s guilty and who’s innocent.

Tell us more about your experiences as a football supporter.

 

[tonyw]

When you are making the same claims as BLM do, about systemic and institutionalised global racism, you need to come with more than just unspecified claims about video footage (which in fairness probably do display isolated incidents of racism).

If this is more than just an issue with certain enclaves of law and order, and instead really is a systemic global crisis (as BLM believe) then there needs to be evidence for that belief. And it needs to be evidence that goes beyond simple correlation i.e. "X black people get certain jobs compared to Y white people so that's racism".

So danger of this turning into a long response, but here goes.......

There is a ton of evidence that the world in general does a pretty bad job when it comes to socio-economic mobility.
The number one predictor for an individual's socio-economic status is the status of their parents. Again, a ton of research that shows this.
It varies quite a lot country-to-country - as expected, the nordic countries are particularly good; African and Latin American countries are particularly bad; the UK and the US hover somewhere in the middle - but it is consistently the case.

Now actually I'm not someone who really believes in equality. I don't actually think it's fair and reasonable for everyone to have the same - if you work harder and are more talented, then you deserve more.
But Equality of Opportunity? Yes, absolutely. In any ideal world, everyone should succeed or fail based on their own actions and merits, not based on their status at birth.
And we (and I'll use 'we' to mean the US and the UK because those are the countries I know most about) are doing a really shitty job of providing equality of opportunity to our people right now. If you're born in inner-city Baltimore then the opportunities (Education, Training, Healthcare etc. etc.) you have access to are not the same as if you're born in leafy Connecticut.

The question that's really, really hard to prove is whether this massive gulf in opportunity is purely historic and socio-economic in nature (there is, of course, and always has been a sharp racial division in socio-economic status) or whether there is additional institutional racism, either explicit or casual, that is putting up additional barriers to opportunity to certain racial groups.

I don't know the answer, and I don't think anyone does - but if the BLM movement gets us to really address the question, to do a top-to-bottom review of our institutions and individual behaviors and make sure that this institutional racism does not exist.....or if it exists, then purge it.....well, I think that's something that's important and overdue.

And regardless - it's not a bad thing to put the governments of our countries, who are after all responsible primarily for protecting the rights of all their citizens, under pressure to do a much, much better job of providing equal opportunities for all.

 

[cassox]

Where was your solicitor?

Most likely plod read you a mile off and realized you're the kind of poker player who likes to play with their cards up!

With a couple of carefully aimed prods they knew you'd lose your cool and not only 'fess up but spill names as well!

pffffft what little poncey world do you live in???....you wouldnt last 5 minutes ....you quite obviously dont know what you are talking about. ? ? ? ? clown alert whoooo whooooo

 

[MC Yellow]

pffffft what little poncey world do you live in???....you wouldnt last 5 minutes ....you quite obviously dont know what you are talking about. ? ? ? ? clown alert whoooo whooooo

You are such a dick

 

[Scotchegg]

pffffft what little poncey world do you live in???....you wouldnt last 5 minutes ....you quite obviously dont know what you are talking about. ? ? ? ? clown alert whoooo whooooo

You're the sort of person who gives it large but cries himself to sleep every night in prison whilst hiding from the real tough guys. Seen the likes of you a thousand times over, and it's pitiful.

But stick with the act, I'm sure that someone somewhere is impressed!!