International News Black Lives Matter

[Oxford84]

Interesting insight. Sounds as if you've received unpleasant abuse based both on being a black person (I assume, as the 'n' word is used) and a Jew. So are you in fact a black skinned Jew, or just one or the other, or perhaps neither? People who shout such inane abuse are probably uneducated and generally ignorant, so perhaps they're unable to make their abuse coherent and just seek physical reactions instead?

Well I’m white and not Jewish so it just goes to show that people will say anything trying to get to you, which points me towards people not being racist but just saying anything possible to get the reaction.think it’s also very much a young persons way of doing things as well.

 

[unification]

we dont honour rememberance day ever damn game we had the whole season to show solidarity gesture .

Really, Danny? Remembrance Day takes place every year and there is a weird one upmanship now taking place to put a poppy on everything that makes the whole affair quite tacky and tawdry, be that in football or wider society. There’s a sinister undertone to those who don’t engage with it too (James McLean namely) where fans can’t wait to bait those who through their own choice choose not to wear a poppy. David Cameron wore two poppies with one on a shirt and one on a jacket lest he be spotted without one. Sesame Street’s Cookie Monster had one on on an episode of The One Show - it’s a puppet! An episode of Saturday Kitchen Best Bites knitted together bits of the show from previous October-November episodes so everyone on it appeared to have a poppy on. What are the Beeb frighted of there? That a repeat of previous shows may cause complaints. This thing at a Tranmere game pictured showed true and absolute respect of our fallen too. Poppy fascism is alive, well and quite frankly over the top now.

I said it some time ago on this thread but I’ll summarise in short again. Taking the knee is symbolic act but a near pointless one. It achieves nothing as there is nothing active about it. It’s become tangled with BLM which in itself has become hard to define because the movement itself is so abstract with no set mission statement nor national/local chapters to carry it out so it’s become tainted by those hijacking it for political ends. People boo the taking of the knee through a mix of misunderstanding it, linking it with political movements and because some people simply hate others for the colour of their skin.

Define what BLM means and what taking the knee means and you may get somewhere. Since this thread shows that many can’t define either or show disparate sources revealing different definitions shows we have a long way to go before we can even start the debate let alone find answers.

 

[Pete Burrett]

Well I’m white and not Jewish so it just goes to show that people will say anything trying to get to you, which points me towards people not being racist but just saying anything possible to get the reaction.think it’s also very much a young persons way of doing things as well.

Well that's just bizarre! So people have referred to you as a n***** and a Jew just to get at you, even though you are neither? Takes the concept of stupidity to a new level.

 

[Scotchegg]

Really, Danny? Remembrance Day takes place every year and there is a weird one upmanship now taking place to put a poppy on everything that makes the whole affair quite tacky and tawdry, be that in football or wider society. There’s a sinister undertone to those who don’t engage with it too (James McLean namely) where fans can’t wait to bait those who through their own choice choose not to wear a poppy. David Cameron wore two poppies with one on a shirt and one on a jacket lest he be spotted without one. Sesame Street’s Cookie Monster had one on on an episode of The One Show - it’s a puppet! An episode of Saturday Kitchen Best Bites knitted together bits of the show from previous October-November episodes so everyone on it appeared to have a poppy on. What are the Beeb frighted of there? That a repeat of previous shows may cause complaints. This thing at a Tranmere game pictured showed true and absolute respect of our fallen too. Poppy fascism is alive, well and quite frankly over the top now.

I said it some time ago on this thread but I’ll summarise in short again. Taking the knee is symbolic act but a near pointless one. It achieves nothing as there is nothing active about it. It’s become tangled with BLM which in itself has become hard to define because the movement itself is so abstract with no set mission statement nor national/local chapters to carry it out so it’s become tainted by those hijacking it for political ends. People boo the taking of the knee through a mix of misunderstanding it, linking it with political movements and because some people simply hate others for the colour of their skin.

Define what BLM means and what taking the knee means and you may get somewhere. Since this thread shows that many can’t define either or show disparate sources revealing different definitions shows we have a long way to go before we can even start the debate let alone find answers.

A very good post, and you're right to raise the point about the way the poppy has been aggressively pushed in recent years. This has happened at a time when the poppy has also become a political symbol and missed used by some of the far right in the same way the cross of St. George has previously been used.

There are no easy answers to addressing racism in the game or the wider society, but the taking of a knee has brought it back into every day conversations which has to be a good thing. How it moves forward from here is uncertain but I hope we don't lose sight of the need to continue to challenge unsocial attitudes and behaviours.

 

[Scotchegg]

Well that's just bizarre! So people have referred to you as a n***** and a Jew just to get at you, even though you are neither? Takes the concept of stupidity to a new level.

Although it also shows how racial and religious labels are used to hurt others, and whilst someone who isn't black or Jewish can laugh this off as stupidity, the intent to cause harm remains.

 

[Oxford84]

Well that's just bizarre! So people have referred to you as a n***** and a Jew just to get at you, even though you are neither? Takes the concept of stupidity to a new level.

That’s trolling.this is not just English either have experience from Europe too.

 

[lodeyellow]

That’s trolling.this is not just English either have experience from Europe too.

You’ve made your point, several
times - it’s getting rather boring.
Maybe you should give some thought as to why you seem to be so unpopular with so many people at home and abroad.

 

[Oxford84]

You’ve made your point, several
times - it’s getting rather boring.
Maybe you should give some thought as to why you seem to be so unpopular with so many people at home and abroad.

Really?

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Bloody Marxists

 

[Oslernorth]

I think the shaking of hands is to demonstrate sportsmanship and respect, which is arguably much more relevant to the sport of football than kneeling to support humanity "in general".

I would certainly agree sportsmanship and respect are extremely important throughout all sports.
I just think if a player wants to take the knee, they should feel they can do so without any backlash from people in the stands.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

From where I'm stood, this sums it up pretty well.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-knee-fans-boris-johnson-england-footballers

No doubt there will be those who see this as woke lefty nonsense, and those who won't engage and read it because of the publication, or even try to understand the viewpoint... but I guess that's their problem

 

[SteMerritt]

From where I'm stood, this sums it up pretty well.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-knee-fans-boris-johnson-england-footballers

No doubt there will be those who see this as woke lefty nonsense, and those who won't engage and read it because of the publication, or even try to understand the viewpoint... but I guess that's their problem

Mostly a decent piece, but why fall back on the 'football terraces' cliché when they have been banned for the best part of 25 years., and as for this quote...

It is an achievement when any minute’s silence is observed

... I've been in way more immaculately observed minutes silences at football than ones that have been disrupted, just about every one is observed with respect.

That is before you consider things like the minutes applause for the Blackpool lad in the middle of a vital match for example.

The press still, even in the 21st century, still find it very easy to look down on football supporters.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Mostly a decent piece, but why fall back on the 'football terraces' cliché when they have been banned for the best part of 25 years., and as for this quote...



... I've been in way more immaculately observed minutes silences at football than ones that have been disrupted, just about every one is observed with respect.

That is before you consider things like the minutes applause for the Blackpool lad in the middle of a vital match for example.

The press still, even in the 21st century, still find it very easy to look down on football supporters.

I agree with you on that bit, yes. Even lefty wokeists can be guilty of lazy generalisations and bias.....who knew?

And it is kind of sad that booing the kneeling will only serve to reinforce the stereotypes I'm afraid.

Not sure who saw this last night https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000wzfr/krept-and-konan-we-are-england but it was a really good exploration of what it means to be English today and how to write a football anthem for the Euro's to reflect that.

The time of 3 Lions and World in Motion are most definitely part of our history and heritage, but that is what they are (as good as both were in their day) - the world and England has changed.

 

[bashamwonderland]

I agree with you on that bit, yes. Even lefty wokeists can be guilty of lazy generalisations and bias.....who knew?

And it is kind of sad that booing the kneeling will only serve to reinforce the stereotypes I'm afraid.

Not sure who saw this last night https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000wzfr/krept-and-konan-we-are-england but it was a really good exploration of what it means to be English today and how to write a football anthem for the Euro's to reflect that.

The time of 3 Lions and World in Motion are most definitely part of our history and heritage, but that is what they are (as good as both were in their day) - the world and England has changed.

If Krept and Konan were truly sympathetic to the aim of diversity in sport, they might not have been the focus of recent criticism regarding a comment one of them made about women's football on social media.

As a side note, when was our last memorable anthem? I think of that Ant and Dec banger from 2002 but nothing else springs to mind.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

If Krept and Konan were truly sympathetic to the aim of diversity in sport, they might not have been the focus of recent criticism regarding a comment one of them made about women's football on social media.

As a side note, when was our last memorable anthem? I think of that Ant and Dec banger from 2002 but nothing else springs to mind.

I'm won't disagree with you, even if said social media spat completely passed me by . . . and Krept and Konan are hardly a big thing for one so decrepit as me!

But they are popular and have influence with younger folk and so it is incumbent on them to be a bit more self-aware and lead by example.

Both Sexism and Racism are alive and well in society and I have no problem with anyone drawing attention to either in an effort to improve how we tackle them.

What's the "ism" word for thinking it is OK for poorer people to have worse educational and employment prospects, life expectancy, live in worse areas with less green space, poorer air quality/greater pollution and higher crime rates "because that's the hand they've been dealt", I wonder?

As an aside to you aside....I was listening to an interview with Peter Hook (he of Joy Division/New Order fame) and he was telling the story of how NO wanted to do a follow up to World In Motion in 2002 but were told they had to stand aside because Ant and Dec had already got the gig

 

[Essexyellows]

I'm won't disagree with you, even if said social media spat completely passed me by . . . and Krept and Konan are hardly a big thing for one so decrepit as me!

But they are popular and have influence with younger folk and so it is incumbent on them to be a bit more self-aware and lead by example.

Both Sexism and Racism are alive and well in society and I have no problem with anyone drawing attention to either in an effort to improve how we tackle them.

What's the "ism" word for thinking it is OK for poorer people to have worse educational and employment prospects, life expectancy, live in worse areas with less green space, poorer air quality/greater pollution and higher crime rates "because that's the hand they've been dealt", I wonder?

As an aside to you aside....I was listening to an interview with Peter Hook (he of Joy Division/New Order fame) and he was telling the story of how NO wanted to do a follow up to World In Motion in 2002 but were told they had to stand aside because Ant and Dec had already got the gig

The "ism" you seek is called life.
Life deals folk a hand they have little choice in.
What does happen is that each generation has it slightly better than the last.
How people chose to spend their "four score years and ten" is entirely up to them and their choices, even if those choices are more limited for some because life isn`t fair.

 

[bashamwonderland]

I'm won't disagree with you, even if said social media spat completely passed me by . . . and Krept and Konan are hardly a big thing for one so decrepit as me!

But they are popular and have influence with younger folk and so it is incumbent on them to be a bit more self-aware and lead by example.

Both Sexism and Racism are alive and well in society and I have no problem with anyone drawing attention to either in an effort to improve how we tackle them.

What's the "ism" word for thinking it is OK for poorer people to have worse educational and employment prospects, life expectancy, live in worse areas with less green space, poorer air quality/greater pollution and higher crime rates "because that's the hand they've been dealt", I wonder?

As an aside to you aside....I was listening to an interview with Peter Hook (he of Joy Division/New Order fame) and he was telling the story of how NO wanted to do a follow up to World In Motion in 2002 but were told they had to stand aside because Ant and Dec had already got the gig

It wasn't big news so I wouldn't feel too out of touch over it.

You're right about racism and sexism - both have been with us for the past 250,000 years and are as innate and biological as our desire to procreate and seek shelter. Basic survival tools. It's how we mitigate and regulate their impact on society at large which probably forms the basis of the disagreements on these threads.

Anyway, I'm glad NO didn't get the gig because I'll now be able to recite the starting 11 for our 2002 campaign until the day I die...

I don't know many people who think it's OK for poorer people to have a lower quality of life than richer people. I guess where we probably would disagree, however, is on the whys and hows of reducing that gap.

 

[Essexyellows]

Sorry had to ....

 

[Sheik djibouti]

The "ism" you seek is called life.
Life deals folk a hand they have little choice in.
What does happen is that each generation has it slightly better than the last.
How people chose to spend their "four score years and ten" is entirely up to them and their choices, even if those choices are more limited for some because life isn`t fair.

What rot. That may be how you see it, but it is simply not the life experience many have. And to say that's the hand they've been dealt suggests that you have absolutely no desire to change anything to improve anyone's lot

Racism was "life" years ago....for many it still is - thankfully that is changing. Sexism and misogyny too - again thankfully that has changed/contiunes to change, but still is their life experience to some extent in certain circumstances. In the same way both of those "acts of fate" dictated how fair your life was to a significant extent. (and for many it still does).

People purposefully made the lives of others more difficult than they needed to be - maybe as Bash says, that is human nature and has been for Eon's - however, civilisation evolves over time and there rally is no need to perpetuate the same kind of behaviours and discriminations the species has been practicing ever since it climbed out of the cave/tree.

To be so simplistic as to think everyone has complete control over the choices they make in how their lives turn out is naive in the extreme. And that is before you even consider the imperfection of the human condition and our unerring ability to make poor choices that affect how our lives pan out. Simply trying to do the right thing against an enormous pressure from peers and those in their local community to take a different path is not enough for many. You cannot deny that poverty is a trap and for some and one that they only ever escape by foul means because that is the only realistic option they have available. These are multi-generational ingrained issues and to say it is as easy as "make the right choices and you'll be fine" is the modern day equivalent of "let them eat cake".

I will agree to a limited extent that each generation has it better. As my old Granny (born in the North East in 1915) used to say "you never see children without shoes anymore". However, the challenges each generation faces are different and largely unique to them and to dismiss them as "not as hard as I had it" misses the point hugely. I would not want to be a young person today in truth. Job prospects/security lower, personal and national debts higher, exposure to sexual abuse - higher, climate crisis, water/food/resources scarcity and population pressure increasing, gap between rich and poor increasing, Life expectancy going in the wrong direction in some parts of the UK. And on that final point - how do you explain that healthy life years expectancy in Blackpool is 53 years and in Richmond it is 73 years?

So whilst some elements may be better than their forebearers, many aren't or are just different. We have the means and ability to change all that if we choose to, but if left to individuals, nothing will change.

Is the ism I'm looking for Conservatism (as in conserving the status quo), I wonder

Sorry had to ....

What a prick!

 

[SteMerritt]

Sorry had to ....

This has to be a spoof video, although it is hard to tell...