Home Match Day Thread 02/9/23 L1: OUFC v Port Vale

[Malc]

IT'S SATURDAY!

 

[Eaststanding]

A hiccup at worse

To me LM took too long to make the subs, needs to be more proactive rather than reactive

To me Bodin and Goodram could easily have been replaced at half time or just after.

These type of tactics are those that are a difference from a good manager to a really good/ great one.

Time on his side though

I thought Mills for Goodhram and Edwards for Bodin no later than the hour mark ’could’ have turned the game. Until then the game was stale and needed a spark. As it was our own Sparky decided to liven it all up shortly after the hour.

 

[OX14]

I thought Mills for Goodhram and Edwards for Bodin no later than the hour mark ’could’ have turned the game. Until then the game was stale and needed a spark. As it was our own Sparky decided to liven it all up shortly after the hour.

That's the only criticism with Manning so far for me. I would of took Leigh off at 60 minutes too as he was already on a yellow card aswell. Goodrham and Bodin were not in the game second half and with the bench being so strong we should of changed personal.

 

[arthurturner]

A friend of mine who supports the Vale said Smith must get more players sent off compared to anyone with his clever play .

Clever? I’d call it cynical skullduggery.

 

[East Stand Fan]

I thought Mills for Goodhram and Edwards for Bodin no later than the hour mark ’could’ have turned the game. Until then the game was stale and needed a spark. As it was our own Sparky decided to liven it all up shortly after the hour.

Yep, even in the Charlton game I would've refreshed it way earlier. Manning seems happy to ride out lethargic or difficult periods in the hope we'll get through it or manage to carve out something rather than make any changes that could disrupt the setup. Not really sure if it works all that well because Charlton were on top of us for large periods in the second half last week before our goal out of nothing and Vale had us covered even before the red card. Both those teams made changes to personnel and their system which we did not counter.

I think this is where we could come unstuck if we're not careful - dominate first halves and then the opposition make key changes that we don't combat or anticipate and suddenly it becomes a game of two deeply contrasting halves.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Having had the best part of a day to think about it, yesterday does worry me slightly. Not that we lost (although that does rankle) nor the dismal performances of the officials (sadly, you get used to it. Which makes it no less frustrating!) nor even the lack of discipline from Harris (he'll learn) and Leigh (unlucky with the first yellow and more good than bad over the course of the game).

No, what worries me is the performance before we went down to 10 men. In contrast to some other people seeming to think we were in control and it would be only a matter of time before we scored if the sending off hadn't happened, I think we looked as if we had very little idea how to break down a well organised opposition. We created very very little, with their keeper having to make a couple of very routine saves from daisy cutters hit from distance. I though we played the ball too slowly (in comparison to some recent games) with players taking extra touches and being more prepared to take the 'safer' option a higher percentage of the time. When we did create any kind of break it either slowed down almost immediately, or the player wasn't supported. For example the (rather ineffective) Goodrham did get a couple of half way decent crosses in only for there to be absolutely nobody in a 'strikers' position in front of the goal. Until Mills came on, we also had very little pace out wide (we played virtually everything all over the pitch at the same tempo, and didn't seem to be able to accelerate that when an opening presented itself) and there was no inventive spark to try and break through their defensive lines - either by running at them with the ball or passing it through for someone to run on to.

The manner of the nevertheless rather undeserved defeat makes it a rather bitter pill to swallow, but let's hope LM has realised after that result that there are many other teams in the season who will play the way Port Vale did yesterday (and Cambridge did earlier) and he has to try to solve that particular (difficult) conundrum before we meet the next lot who do so.

 

[behindthegoal]

That's the only criticism with Manning so far for me. I would of took Leigh off at 60 minutes too as he was already on a yellow card aswell. Goodrham and Bodin were not in the game second half and with the bench being so strong we should of changed personal.

Yes... Good points

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

Having had the best part of a day to think about it, yesterday does worry me slightly. Not that we lost (although that does rankle) nor the dismal performances of the officials (sadly, you get used to it. Which makes it no less frustrating!) nor even the lack of discipline from Harris (he'll learn) and Leigh (unlucky with the first yellow and more good than bad over the course of the game).

No, what worries me is the performance before we went down to 10 men. In contrast to some other people seeming to think we were in control and it would be only a matter of time before we scored if the sending off hadn't happened, I think we looked as if we had very little idea how to break down a well organised opposition. We created very very little, with their keeper having to make a couple of very routine saves from daisy cutters hit from distance. I though we played the ball too slowly (in comparison to some recent games) with players taking extra touches and being more prepared to take the 'safer' option a higher percentage of the time. When we did create any kind of break it either slowed down almost immediately, or the player wasn't supported. For example the (rather ineffective) Goodrham did get a couple of half way decent crosses in only for there to be absolutely nobody in a 'strikers' position in front of the goal. Until Mills came on, we also had very little pace out wide (we played virtually everything all over the pitch at the same tempo, and didn't seem to be able to accelerate that when an opening presented itself) and there was no inventive spark to try and break through their defensive lines - either by running at them with the ball or passing it through for someone to run on to.

The manner of the nevertheless rather undeserved defeat makes it a rather bitter pill to swallow, but let's hope LM has realised after that result that there are many other teams in the season who will play the way Port Vale did yesterday (and Cambridge did earlier) and he has to try to solve that particular (difficult) conundrum before we meet the next lot who do so.

Really interesting and thoughtful post. I see it the other way around though. With our strengths and weaknesses the priority against a team like Vale has to be avoiding going behind. Make them work hard, look for opportunities when we can but avoid trailing at all costs then open them up in the last 20/30 mins if things still level. It was failing to do this versus Cambridge that cost us - once ahead they just sat back and killed us. Vale were just beginning to look leggy, nervy and giving away tons of silly fouls when the red card happened. There'll hopefully come a time later in the season where we break a low block at home through sheer quality and pizazz but not there yet. For me the red came just at the moment we were ready to cash in on the hard graft of the first hour.

 

[Kamal]

Was there traffic management after the game?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Really interesting and thoughtful post. I see it the other way around though. With our strengths and weaknesses the priority against a team like Vale has to be avoiding going behind. Make them work hard, look for opportunities when we can but avoid trailing at all costs then open them up in the last 20/30 mins if things still level. It was failing to do this versus Cambridge that cost us - once ahead they just sat back and killed us. Vale were just beginning to look leggy, nervy and giving away tons of silly fouls when the red card happened. There'll hopefully come a time later in the season where we break a low block at home through sheer quality and pizazz but not there yet. For me the red came just at the moment we were ready to cash in on the hard graft of the first hour.

Thanks - That's an interesting take on how we are trying to play against the Cambridges and Port Vales of this world. If it is, then it isn't working as we did not go ahead in either game and lost them both (although you could plead 'special circumstances' for yesterday - but only once we were down to 10). When we have looked best is when we play against teams who are themselves more open and attacking. I'd still say that more pace out wide and moving the ball quicker yesterday would have possibly lead to a better result - although of course the latter is easier said than done when you are facing a team who closed down as well as PV did (yes, I think you have to give some credit to the other team!). But we did not stretch them at all in the first half. The game stats seem to show two pretty well matched teams and the first 65 minutes certainly looked like two sides cancelling each other out to me. I'd also say that we have only kept one clean sheet so far this season (and it wasn't in this type of game), so trying to nick a goal late on is more likely to lead to a draw than a win!

We now have 2 weeks without meaningful action. Hopefully time to integrate the newer signings into the side and provide a bit more energy , pace and invention to overcome teams like this. All IMO of course!

 

[NorthWestOx]

That's the only criticism with Manning so far for me. I would of took Leigh off at 60 minutes too as he was already on a yellow card aswell. Goodrham and Bodin were not in the game second half and with the bench being so strong we should of changed personal.

Yep, we went down to 10 on 63 minutes, which is a good time to make changes anyway.
Sacrifice Leigh for Brown to tighten up at the back and mitigate the potential (eventual) 2nd Yellow.
Had we had done that, I don't think they score their first either, we missed Brown in the box at set pieces at both ends

Also bringing on Mills and Perkins at the same time to inject a bit of pace and retain some semblance of a balanced team.

 

[East Stand Fan]

Yep, we went down to 10 on 63 minutes, which is a good time to make changes anyway.
Sacrifice Leigh for Brown to tighten up at the back and mitigate the potential (eventual) 2nd Yellow.
Had we had done that, I don't think they score their first either, we missed Brown in the box at set pieces at both ends

Also bringing on Mills and Perkins at the same time to inject a bit of pace and retain some semblance of a balanced team.

Controversial opinion but I don’t even think Brown should’ve been dropped. He may not be the most mobile or effective player going forward but he’s pretty solid in that position and works well with the rest of the defence. Leigh had the most mixed bag of a game imaginable - scored, won plenty of headers and looked comfortable on the ball but despite all that, nothing really seemed to benefit us as a whole in the end. The red was reckless but Manning should’ve took him off the moment he scored because in the last 10 minutes he was getting relentlessly skinned and really began to tire.

Although I’d prefer a natural left back in that position like Leigh, I don’t think Brown did anything wrong to warrant being dropped and the end result showed that on Saturday.

 

[dickwalton1964]

Controversial opinion but I don’t even think Brown should’ve been dropped. He may not be the most mobile or effective player going forward but he’s pretty solid in that position and works well with the rest of the defence. Leigh had the most mixed bag of a game imaginable - scored, won plenty of headers and looked comfortable on the ball but despite all that, nothing really seemed to benefit us as a whole in the end. The red was reckless but Manning should’ve took him off the moment he scored because in the last 10 minutes he was getting relentlessly skinned and really began to tire.

Although I’d prefer a natural left back in that position like Leigh, I don’t think Brown did anything wrong to warrant being dropped and the end result showed that on Saturday.

Can't agree with that. Leigh is far more dynamic than Brown. Yes, he had a frantic few minutes where your hindsight is kicking in but over all there's no doubt who looks the better player and that's Leigh.

 

[Berliner]

Can't agree with that. Leigh is far more dynamic than Brown. Yes, he had a frantic few minutes where your hindsight is kicking in but over all there's no doubt who looks the better player and that's Leigh.

On the offensive, no doubt. Defensively, I'm not so sure. Depends what sort of a left back we are after in any given game, I suppose.

 

[Nalowe6971]

Says game was the first game for me this season as I now live in essex
Thoughts
I was really impressed with the way we passed it and kept possession however we didn’t test the keeper enough ….. I thought the final ball was poor . Harris needs to stay more central as a number 9 …. There we several times on sat when both wise men had no none to aim at in the middle as Harris had dropped deep… so far though it’s been very promising and mcguane is awesome in the middle. It’s was a great transfer window as we didn’t lose anyone and we brought in some good players ….. let’s continue to get behind this team and it’s def the best football I’ve seen in years.. hoping to get down to Oxford to see another game soon

 

[Big Ronaldo]

So, I guess we can count ourselves as a little unfortunate/naive losing this one.
It’s not the losing so much as the way we react to losing that counts though.
I hope that we shrug it off and remember the lessons of it.
That way, we just reset and go again.
We are, by all accounts playing very well and this excellent start is something the players should be extremely proud of.
I think this team has serious potential, keep playing as they have been and it could be a superb season.

 

[Theox07]

Quite a lot of the attacks was coming down Leigh’s side last 30 mins easy balls down the line not getting cut out and if brown was there none of them balls rarely happen which made him get a red card in the end

 

[uptheus]

See I love the new injury time rules (except how as RadOx have pointed out, it basically becomes fair game as soon as injury time starts and you can time waste as much as you want) and the fact that it values giving the fans proper value for money and hopefully more time with the ball in play.

It is tedious having 110 minute games - but it’s great to see teams punished for anti-football tactics and after less than a month it’s already visible how much less people use going down injured as a means to tactically run the clock down or break up play. Stoppage times will start to track down the more teams get used to it - and professional/players bodies should be reminding them that if they play properly and avoid the kind of time-wasting, ‘game management’ tropes that have led to this then they won’t be playing 55 minute halves anyway.

Longer term if this doesn’t work I do think 60 minute matches and stop-clocks will be the only way to go, so I really hope this works!

Or a clock that the referee manages is see by all e.g. the referee stops the clock even in injury time for additional injuries/time wasting etc, and during normal playing. Plus the 30secs! added for substitutions etc

 

[uptheus]

Going to be critical here. We don’t create enough chances close in and don’t work the Keeper enough. Just an opinion of course.

Personally I was disappointed with the overall performance Saturday, especially as I didn’t think that Port Vale were all that if I’m honest. Yes, we shouldn’t have lost, and a draw would have probably been the fair result, but having said that I could also say the same for the game against Charlton where we managed to nick a win!

I just don’t think that final ball is great at the moment, plus on many occasions Leigh was looking for options to play it forward into feet with no options appearing.

We’re far from the finished article e.g. players needing to find the right partnerships/understanding each others roles/movements, so hopefully over time that starts to click.

We’ve got to stop this complacency which happens too often e.g. too slow on the ball/pass, not understanding what’s around us e.g. Brannagan nearly having the ball taken away from him because he’s ambling to the ball. (Not been impressed with him for a long time now e.g. most of last season and this one. Seems half the player he was prior to getting his 4 year large contract). Rodrigues has got to be more switched on and quicker. Like I said after the Cambridge game he looks unfit, but not sure if that’s just him! Negru had one of his poorest games for us, seemed flustered and mistimed his headers (coming off of the top of his head), so hope that was just a bad day at the office. Still not sure about Stevens, would like to see him offer something more going forward e.g. overlap the winger etc, so not sure if it’s him or he’s being asked to hold back. Just feel it’s restricting his natural game!

Lastly, I know it’s been said before and some don’t like it and I understand it to a certain extent, but I just feel if we had that experienced natural striker we may have had a goal or two with a couple of those ball across the six yard box. I really hope that decision doesn’t affect us too much and that O’Donkor/Perkins can come to the fore!

 

[lucky71]

Newbie here,mainly an armchair supporter due to work commitments but managed to get to the Port Vale at the weekend.
Literally gobsmacked to see the comments on the game though,did some of these people really go to the game??
It was a smash & grab from PV & if it stays 11v11 then we win the game easily imo.
Stevens getting pelters on here is unreal? If you know your Football,we set up with the left side to attack & the right side to defend with Stevens rolling inside & becoming more of a defensive (no 6 ) midfielder (Rico Lewis does it for City) who will be the out ball & effectively the extra midfielder.In the first half Stevens put x2 great balls in & on any other day he gets x2 assists, does Sam Long have that in his locker or is he technically better? No is the answer.
After the sending off we became rigid & yes probably played it across the back line too much but until Stan Mills came on there wasn’t an out ball & imo there wasn’t anything up front whatsoever..
The foul for their first goal isn’t a foul & if I’m being picky Leigh doesn’t track his man on the free kick,the penalty was down to Cam not tracking his man,Stevens comes across & a desperate lunge leads to the penalty,he’s damned if he does & damned if he doesn’t..
Should never of lost the game & it’s a bump in the road for me,comments-wise - be careful what you wish for… We will be top 6 for sure at the end of the season imo,rant over..

 

[Marked Ox]

Ah, b****r.