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[ttg17]

Ttg17. Agreed.

However without splitting hairs the Westminster bridge incident someone planned and executed a pre planned plot to murder people.

In this case a spontaneous set of incidents carried out by a collective set of idiots seemed to escalate and mob mentality inspired people to do things perhaps they wouldn’t normally do. I know nothing of that woman so this is guesswork and I accept I could be wrong, but I’ve a hunch she didn’t wake up yesterday morning planning to murder someone and did as a “martyr”.

I see where you're coming from, but I think this meets the threshold of 'pre-planned'. Proud Boys were apparently openly bragging about smuggling guns into DC ahead of the protest. Their leader was banned from DC two days ago amid (ultimately realised) fears violence was planned. Hell, IEDs were found in the Capitol. You don't just happen to have an IED on you - you make that ahead of time. There is a pattern.

The individual woman who was killed maybe didn't pre-orchestrate every action she took that day. But she was part of a pattern of pre-meditated violence.

 

[bazzer9461]

If it is the video I've seen then they are being filmed from behind by Trumpers so were basically surrounded and heavily outnumbered. They fell back to another barrier which also then got overrun. Those Police were massively outnumbered, and even with the Selfies they were probably trying to de-escalate the situation which seems entirely sensible.

There is also video of Police firing pepperball guns trying to stop rioters climbing temporary structures to get into the Capitol Building.

I agree they were heavily outnumbered but the police should have let those degenerates move the barriers themselves, maybe the police should have retreated and joined the other police near the steps/door of the Capitol and try and prevent, although with not enough numbers it would have been difficult.
With Trumps rhetoric You would try ink the national guard would have been on standby.

 

[Marked Ox]

I agree they were heavily outnumbered but the police should have let those degenerates move the barriers themselves, maybe the police should have retreated and joined the other police near the steps/door of the Capitol and try and prevent, although with not enough numbers it would have been difficult.
With Trumps rhetoric You would try ink the national guard would have been on standby.

I can't blame the Police at Capitol Hill based on what I've seen and how outnumbered they were so de-escalation probably was the right course of action. Proved probably by the low number of actual people hurt/killed, violence and lack of significant property damage.

The lack of prep with low Police numbers and how long it took them to get control of the site after it started leaves a lot of questions to be answered. To get more of the National Guard out earlier, it needed Trump to give permission beforehand and I don't think that was happening. They only got a full mobilisation of the National Guard after the storming of Capitol Hill when Acting Secretary of Defense called Mike Pence to get permission and cut Trump out of the picture. One of the commentators on CNN was pointing out, reasonably imo, at the how quickly the Police etc responded with helicopters etc and big numbers of personnel for BLM in Washington but how this was the opposite in that it was so slow a response. It wasn't as if it wasn't signposted by various groups on social media that they were going to Capital Hill and Trump had been encouraging it for a week or so as well as at his 'Save America march'.

 

[Sarge]

going on custom and practice, don't we, the UK , usually 'go in' and physically remove out of control despot dictators ?

 

[QR]

Ttg17. Agreed.

However without splitting hairs the Westminster bridge incident someone planned and executed a pre planned plot to murder people.

In this case a spontaneous set of incidents carried out by a collective set of idiots seemed to escalate and mob mentality inspired people to do things perhaps they wouldn’t normally do. I know nothing of that woman so this is guesswork and I accept I could be wrong, but I’ve a hunch she didn’t wake up yesterday morning planning to murder someone and did as a “martyr”.

You don't spontaneously carry ICDs.

 

[bazzer9461]

going on custom and practice, don't we, the UK , usually 'go in' and physically remove out of control despot dictators ?

Orf with their head

 

[QR]

What is he going to do was the question.

I don`t expect you to give solutions based on your previous, "doing nothing" isn`t an option for 330 million people.

You can argue semantics about what Trump did but the stats suggest he got the basics right (pandemic precluded)
Lower poverty rate.
Lower unemployment.
Increased wages overall.
Economic growth.

US 2020 election: The economy under Trump in six charts

President Trump claims he has been responsible for the strongest US economy ever. What do the numbers show?

www.bbc.co.uk

We have plenty of time to discuss what Biden will/won't/can/can't do but today is about your mad mate Trump and his equally deranged followers and no amount of 'look over there, it's Biden' from you is going to even hit the sides right now, other than to say he's got right f*****g mess to try and sort out.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Don't worry, Iraq are here to save the day. They've issued an arrest warrant for Trump for the pre-meditated murder of Qassim Soleimani by a drone strike outside Baghdad airport last year. The charge carries the death penalty.

 

[South Devon Yellow]

I agree they were heavily outnumbered but the police should have let those degenerates move the barriers themselves, maybe the police should have retreated and joined the other police near the steps/door of the Capitol and try and prevent, although with not enough numbers it would have been difficult.
With Trumps rhetoric You would try ink the national guard would have been on standby.

Is that so the National Guard can identify the protesters concerned?

 

[bazzer9461]

We have plenty of time to discuss what Biden will/won't/can/can't do but today is about your mad mate Trump and his equally deranged followers and no amount of 'look over there, it's Biden' from you is going to even hit the sides right now, other than to say he's got right f*****g mess to try and sort out.

I think Biden should when taking office talk to his advisers and attorney General and see if charges could be preferred against the Chump Trump.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

What is he going to do was the question.

I don`t expect you to give solutions based on your previous, "doing nothing" isn`t an option for 330 million people.

You can argue semantics about what Trump did but the stats suggest he got the basics right (pandemic precluded)
Lower poverty rate.
Lower unemployment.
Increased wages overall.
Economic growth.

US 2020 election: The economy under Trump in six charts

President Trump claims he has been responsible for the strongest US economy ever. What do the numbers show?

www.bbc.co.uk

That's a bit like saying

"Yeah, but Mussolini managed to rid Italy of Malaria", or

"Have you seen the near full employment figures in Germany in the mid/late 1930's?? - Impressive!!"

 

[bazzer9461]

Don't worry, Iraq are here to save the day. They've issued an arrest warrant for Trump for the pre-meditated murder of Qassim Soleimani by a drone strike outside Baghdad airport last year. The charge carries the death penalty.

Oh come on surely that’s fake news

 

[Pete Burrett]

So, does anyone on here feel positive about Trump as a man or anything he has achieved since 2016? (Will help if you have actually read the comments by @tonyw on this thread and elsewhere which tend to be factual and reasoned).

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Oh come on surely that’s fake news

It came from Associated Press, not social media and as a result I am more inclined to believe it!

 

[Jerome'SAle]

Ttg17. Agreed.

However without splitting hairs the Westminster bridge incident someone planned and executed a pre planned plot to murder people.

In this case a spontaneous set of incidents carried out by a collective set of idiots seemed to escalate and mob mentality inspired people to do things perhaps they wouldn’t normally do. I know nothing of that woman so this is guesswork and I accept I could be wrong, but I’ve a hunch she didn’t wake up yesterday morning planning to murder someone and did as a “martyr”.

Pre-mediatated or not i wouldnt put this in quite the same bracket as getting a bit overexcited in the away end at northampton

 

[RyanioBirdio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346987917273608194

It’s a sad day when you start a revolution and find yourself being pushed and getting a bit of spray in your eyes. Awful. How will she move past this?

At least she isn’t on camera giving her name and city of residence, and admitting to attempting to overthrow the government. Otherwise it could be classed as confessing to a crime that amounts to treason, and which carries a hefty prison sentence.

 

[Steve McAvoy]

I think Biden should when taking office talk to his advisers and attorney General and see if charges could be preferred against the Chump Trump.

Don’t disagree with the sentiment but unfortunately it would maintain a high profile for Trump which he would, of course, use again to his advantage, whatever the consequence for others.

 

[Sarge]

I see Jamiroquai (centre) has a bit of time on his hands these days then?

 

[Essexyellows]

So, does anyone on here feel positive about Trump as a man or anything he has achieved since 2016? (Will help if you have actually read the comments by @tonyw on this thread and elsewhere which tend to be factual and reasoned).

The best thing he achieved was getting elected and "rocking the boat" for the Americans that supported him.

As an onlooking, non voting person living in a different country we have to accept that he got elected and they knew exactly what they were getting.

As his term in office rolled on, doing a reasonable job it seems, he enjoyed being on the crest of the wave but had no plan for when the wave hit the rocks.

On that basis alone the end was never going to be pretty.

He got in democratically and should accept that he leaves in the same way, unfortunately he is unlikely to ever do that.

 

[Marked Ox]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346987917273608194

It’s a sad day when you start a revolution and find yourself being pushed and getting a bit of spray in your eyes. Awful. How will she move past this?

At least she isn’t on camera giving her name and city of residence, and admitting to attempting to overthrow the government. Otherwise it could be classed as confessing to a crime that amounts to treason, and which carries a hefty prison sentence.

The Law Enforcement Agencies must be thanking their lucky stars that many are utter morons who put photos on social media and people being interviewed by the media whilst in the building or afterwards.