I thought Mills for Goodhram and Edwards for Bodin no later than the hour mark ’could’ have turned the game. Until then the game was stale and needed a spark. As it was our own Sparky decided to liven it all up shortly after the hour.A hiccup at worse
To me LM took too long to make the subs, needs to be more proactive rather than reactive
To me Bodin and Goodram could easily have been replaced at half time or just after.
These type of tactics are those that are a difference from a good manager to a really good/ great one.
Time on his side though
I thought Mills for Goodhram and Edwards for Bodin no later than the hour mark ’could’ have turned the game. Until then the game was stale and needed a spark. As it was our own Sparky decided to liven it all up shortly after the hour.
Clever? I’d call it cynical skullduggery.A friend of mine who supports the Vale said Smith must get more players sent off compared to anyone with his clever play .
Yep, even in the Charlton game I would've refreshed it way earlier. Manning seems happy to ride out lethargic or difficult periods in the hope we'll get through it or manage to carve out something rather than make any changes that could disrupt the setup. Not really sure if it works all that well because Charlton were on top of us for large periods in the second half last week before our goal out of nothing and Vale had us covered even before the red card. Both those teams made changes to personnel and their system which we did not counter.I thought Mills for Goodhram and Edwards for Bodin no later than the hour mark ’could’ have turned the game. Until then the game was stale and needed a spark. As it was our own Sparky decided to liven it all up shortly after the hour.
Yes... Good pointsThat's the only criticism with Manning so far for me. I would of took Leigh off at 60 minutes too as he was already on a yellow card aswell. Goodrham and Bodin were not in the game second half and with the bench being so strong we should of changed personal.
Really interesting and thoughtful post. I see it the other way around though. With our strengths and weaknesses the priority against a team like Vale has to be avoiding going behind. Make them work hard, look for opportunities when we can but avoid trailing at all costs then open them up in the last 20/30 mins if things still level. It was failing to do this versus Cambridge that cost us - once ahead they just sat back and killed us. Vale were just beginning to look leggy, nervy and giving away tons of silly fouls when the red card happened. There'll hopefully come a time later in the season where we break a low block at home through sheer quality and pizazz but not there yet. For me the red came just at the moment we were ready to cash in on the hard graft of the first hour.Having had the best part of a day to think about it, yesterday does worry me slightly. Not that we lost (although that does rankle) nor the dismal performances of the officials (sadly, you get used to it. Which makes it no less frustrating!) nor even the lack of discipline from Harris (he'll learn) and Leigh (unlucky with the first yellow and more good than bad over the course of the game).
No, what worries me is the performance before we went down to 10 men. In contrast to some other people seeming to think we were in control and it would be only a matter of time before we scored if the sending off hadn't happened, I think we looked as if we had very little idea how to break down a well organised opposition. We created very very little, with their keeper having to make a couple of very routine saves from daisy cutters hit from distance. I though we played the ball too slowly (in comparison to some recent games) with players taking extra touches and being more prepared to take the 'safer' option a higher percentage of the time. When we did create any kind of break it either slowed down almost immediately, or the player wasn't supported. For example the (rather ineffective) Goodrham did get a couple of half way decent crosses in only for there to be absolutely nobody in a 'strikers' position in front of the goal. Until Mills came on, we also had very little pace out wide (we played virtually everything all over the pitch at the same tempo, and didn't seem to be able to accelerate that when an opening presented itself) and there was no inventive spark to try and break through their defensive lines - either by running at them with the ball or passing it through for someone to run on to.
The manner of the nevertheless rather undeserved defeat makes it a rather bitter pill to swallow, but let's hope LM has realised after that result that there are many other teams in the season who will play the way Port Vale did yesterday (and Cambridge did earlier) and he has to try to solve that particular (difficult) conundrum before we meet the next lot who do so.
Thanks - That's an interesting take on how we are trying to play against the Cambridges and Port Vales of this world. If it is, then it isn't working as we did not go ahead in either game and lost them both (although you could plead 'special circumstances' for yesterday - but only once we were down to 10). When we have looked best is when we play against teams who are themselves more open and attacking. I'd still say that more pace out wide and moving the ball quicker yesterday would have possibly lead to a better result - although of course the latter is easier said than done when you are facing a team who closed down as well as PV did (yes, I think you have to give some credit to the other team!). But we did not stretch them at all in the first half. The game stats seem to show two pretty well matched teams and the first 65 minutes certainly looked like two sides cancelling each other out to me. I'd also say that we have only kept one clean sheet so far this season (and it wasn't in this type of game), so trying to nick a goal late on is more likely to lead to a draw than a win!Really interesting and thoughtful post. I see it the other way around though. With our strengths and weaknesses the priority against a team like Vale has to be avoiding going behind. Make them work hard, look for opportunities when we can but avoid trailing at all costs then open them up in the last 20/30 mins if things still level. It was failing to do this versus Cambridge that cost us - once ahead they just sat back and killed us. Vale were just beginning to look leggy, nervy and giving away tons of silly fouls when the red card happened. There'll hopefully come a time later in the season where we break a low block at home through sheer quality and pizazz but not there yet. For me the red came just at the moment we were ready to cash in on the hard graft of the first hour.
That's the only criticism with Manning so far for me. I would of took Leigh off at 60 minutes too as he was already on a yellow card aswell. Goodrham and Bodin were not in the game second half and with the bench being so strong we should of changed personal.
Controversial opinion but I don’t even think Brown should’ve been dropped. He may not be the most mobile or effective player going forward but he’s pretty solid in that position and works well with the rest of the defence. Leigh had the most mixed bag of a game imaginable - scored, won plenty of headers and looked comfortable on the ball but despite all that, nothing really seemed to benefit us as a whole in the end. The red was reckless but Manning should’ve took him off the moment he scored because in the last 10 minutes he was getting relentlessly skinned and really began to tire.Yep, we went down to 10 on 63 minutes, which is a good time to make changes anyway.
Sacrifice Leigh for Brown to tighten up at the back and mitigate the potential (eventual) 2nd Yellow.
Had we had done that, I don't think they score their first either, we missed Brown in the box at set pieces at both ends
Also bringing on Mills and Perkins at the same time to inject a bit of pace and retain some semblance of a balanced team.
Controversial opinion but I don’t even think Brown should’ve been dropped. He may not be the most mobile or effective player going forward but he’s pretty solid in that position and works well with the rest of the defence. Leigh had the most mixed bag of a game imaginable - scored, won plenty of headers and looked comfortable on the ball but despite all that, nothing really seemed to benefit us as a whole in the end. The red was reckless but Manning should’ve took him off the moment he scored because in the last 10 minutes he was getting relentlessly skinned and really began to tire.
Although I’d prefer a natural left back in that position like Leigh, I don’t think Brown did anything wrong to warrant being dropped and the end result showed that on Saturday.
On the offensive, no doubt. Defensively, I'm not so sure. Depends what sort of a left back we are after in any given game, I suppose.Can't agree with that. Leigh is far more dynamic than Brown. Yes, he had a frantic few minutes where your hindsight is kicking in but over all there's no doubt who looks the better player and that's Leigh.
Or a clock that the referee manages is see by all e.g. the referee stops the clock even in injury time for additional injuries/time wasting etc, and during normal playing. Plus the 30secs! added for substitutions etcSee I love the new injury time rules (except how as RadOx have pointed out, it basically becomes fair game as soon as injury time starts and you can time waste as much as you want) and the fact that it values giving the fans proper value for money and hopefully more time with the ball in play.
It is tedious having 110 minute games - but it’s great to see teams punished for anti-football tactics and after less than a month it’s already visible how much less people use going down injured as a means to tactically run the clock down or break up play. Stoppage times will start to track down the more teams get used to it - and professional/players bodies should be reminding them that if they play properly and avoid the kind of time-wasting, ‘game management’ tropes that have led to this then they won’t be playing 55 minute halves anyway.
Longer term if this doesn’t work I do think 60 minute matches and stop-clocks will be the only way to go, so I really hope this works!
Personally I was disappointed with the overall performance Saturday, especially as I didn’t think that Port Vale were all that if I’m honest. Yes, we shouldn’t have lost, and a draw would have probably been the fair result, but having said that I could also say the same for the game against Charlton where we managed to nick a win!Going to be critical here. We don’t create enough chances close in and don’t work the Keeper enough. Just an opinion of course.