Engerland v The Sweaties

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I'd suggest a World Cup semi-final and Nations League semi-final out rank 3rd in the Scottish league.
You're missing the point. It's what you're able to do with the resources at your disposal. Some have the ability to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, others achieve the opposite.

With this squad, the kind of manager England deserve would be achieving closer to what Mancini is doing for Italy.
 
You're missing the point. It's what you're able to do with the resources at your disposal. Some have the ability to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, others achieve the opposite.

With this squad, the kind of manager England deserve would be achieving closer to what Mancini is doing for Italy.

What did previous England managers do with the golden generation of Beckham, Owen, Lampard, Gerrard, Gary Neville etc etc? I don't remember them making a World Cup semi final.
 
Not hugely, no. It sounds great when you say it but who out of Tunisia, Panama and Sweden would you not have been fancied us to beat?
Yeah, 1990 sounds great when you think about it, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Euro 96 sounds good when you say it, but we were dull against Switzerland, rubbish against Scotland for long periods, outplayed by Spain before going through on penalties...

If you are going to critique Southgate, then all good, go for it. If you are going to underplay our best international performance in a generation, 2 years after we lost to Iceland in the last euros, then I think you are being unfair.
 
Against the Czech’s I would start with
Pickford
Walker stones Mings shaw
Phillips
Foden grealish
Sancho Calvert lewin sterling
Surely that would be abit more exciting and might actually win and get a shot on goal
Sterling? Nope not after yesterday
 
You're missing the point. It's what you're able to do with the resources at your disposal. Some have the ability to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, others achieve the opposite.

With this squad, the kind of manager England deserve would be achieving closer to what Mancini is doing for Italy.
The point is moot. Scotland qualified through a playoff and only because of the expansion of teams, not through a massive upturn in performances, they will always over perform against England.

The reaction to a 0-0 draw which leaves us in a good position to qualify has been really over the top. Sure it was a poor performance, but once again its followed by an overreaction (like in 1986, like in 1990 for a Bobby Robson) before we are even out.

It's similar to the KR meltdown on here after every game we lost towards the end of the season.
 
What did previous England managers do with the golden generation of Beckham, Owen, Lampard, Gerrard, Gary Neville etc etc? I don't remember them making a World Cup semi final.
Whataboutism on this thread!!!?
 
reflecting the day after a poor England showing against 'our' oldest International rivals

( and what felt like a 0-0 defeat!) .... last nights match gave me a similar feeling ( supporting England) as the calamitous home defeat by sw*nd*n last season ( but without any goals scored)

I hope England react similarly after such a performance, going on to win the coming game(s) in this tournament in some style, as the mighty U's did.... I shan't be holding my breath on that happening though
 
The point is moot. Scotland qualified through a playoff and only because of the expansion of teams, not through a massive upturn in performances, they will always over perform against England.

The reaction to a 0-0 draw which leaves us in a good position to qualify has been really over the top. Sure it was a poor performance, but once again its followed by an overreaction (like in 1986, like in 1990 for a Bobby Robson) before we are even out.

It's similar to the KR meltdown on here after every game we lost towards the end of the season.
So is your money on Southgate proving you right or me right?

(PS I hope it's you).
 
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In my opinion, this should be the 11 for our next game. Bellingham is a much more physical presence in the middle of midfield and Foden has the ability to turn the ball over and get at the opposition. Grealish and Sancho have to start. Rashford came on last night, and did nothing. Sterling was poor, and surely cannot start another game. Southgate has to get the next 11 right, and let the shackles off! This overly cautious football is rubbish. We have some of the best attacking players on the planet. Let them play!
 
Yeah, 1990 sounds great when you think about it, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Euro 96 sounds good when you say it, but we were dull against Switzerland, rubbish against Scotland for long periods, outplayed by Spain before going through on penalties...

If you are going to critique Southgate, then all good, go for it. If you are going to underplay our best international performance in a generation, 2 years after we lost to Iceland in the last euros, then I think you are being unfair.
I was only 2 for 1990 so can't really comment on that and a bit young for the Euros but do recall a pretty spectacular win over the Netherlands in there as well. I can't remember most the games in any detail but did we generally play a more attractive style of play then? I concede that the nature of tournament football means you don't have to play thrilling stuff every game but it would be nice to see us have a go. I don't know if man for man Italy or the Netherlands are much stronger than us but they play some exciting stuff that we've got the players to do.

Yes we did get knocked out by Iceland but I don't think you can use that as a benchmark of the level we should be at and shouldn't excuse future performances. I'm not saying 2018 was a poor performance, just that it would be what I'd expect with the teams that we faced. I think it got blown out of proportion and we quickly came unstuck against anyone halfway decent, except Sweden where we were pretty impressive.
 
If you are going to critique Southgate, then all good, go for it. If you are going to underplay our best international performance in a generation, 2 years after we lost to Iceland in the last euros, then I think you are being unfair.
Nobody can take that away from him, nor should they. The facts are that he took England to a WC semi-final, even if for me personally it wasn’t enjoyable to watch. I remember running down the street towards the nearest pub as soon as Dier’s penalty went in, jumping off the sofa when Alli put the second in against the Swedes, and some bloke in the pub in London I went to after work lobbing his pint glass into a ceiling fan after the winner against Tunisia. All good, fun moments in isolation, but surrounded by real drabness and a sense that we were constantly playing with the handbrake on.

At the time, I thought it was excellent progress. You’re right to say that going to a WC semi two years after what happened in France was great - it’s a good point that a lot of people often overlook. We went from being crap and hopeless to boring but hopeful. I remember thinking, “I actually like the England team again, it isn’t very fun to watch at present but it’s about getting results and bedding in a new group, and more and more exciting and talented young players are about to appear on the scene. The next couple of tournaments should be fantastic - they’ll only get better and stronger.”

Issue being, we’re three years further along and it’s becoming apparent that what might actually be happening is an ultra-defensive manager is never going to make another game enjoyable to watch, and is going to take some of the most exciting attacking players England has had in years and squeeze the life out of them. England can’t have a squad containing players like Kane, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, the pace of Sterling, not to mention flying full backs who play like wingers for their clubs - top clubs who win top trophies regularly - and spend their best years playing hyper-defensive, slow-paced football. It’s like having a garage full of sports cars and never taking them above 50mph, even on a motorway.

I think the English press is continually unhelpful and counterproductive, and I’m rolling my eyes as much at them as I am what’s happening on the pitch, by the way. I’m not screaming “Southgate out” while spitting lager all over the telly, but I do think this isn’t going to cut it at present. It’s a bit of a shame to watch a young team full of so much talent, who largely play so well and with so much intent for their clubs being muzzled. Like I say, the end point will prove the manager right or wrong.
 
Yeah, 1990 sounds great when you think about it, but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Don't agree. The team had a real fighting spirit (e.g v a VERY physical Cameroon side) , scored some great goals (e.g Platt v Belgium), and would have reached the final if we'd had the luck of the Germans (their freak goal in the semi).
 
Don't agree. The team had a real fighting spirit (e.g v a VERY physical Cameroon side) , scored some great goals (e.g Platt v Belgium), and would have reached the final if we'd had the luck of the Germans (their freak goal in the semi).
1-1 snoozefest against Ireland, laboured to a 1-0 win v Egypt, Belgium should have beaten us before Platt's last gasp goal, got past Cameroon with 2 penalties, one of which was so soft. Awesome against Holland and Germany. It was such a mixed tournament.
 
Nobody can take that away from him, nor should they. The facts are that he took England to a WC semi-final, even if for me personally it wasn’t enjoyable to watch. I remember running down the street towards the nearest pub as soon as Dier’s penalty went in, jumping off the sofa when Alli put the second in against the Swedes, and some bloke in the pub in London I went to after work lobbing his pint glass into a ceiling fan after the winner against Tunisia. All good, fun moments in isolation, but surrounded by real drabness and a sense that we were constantly playing with the handbrake on.

At the time, I thought it was excellent progress. You’re right to say that going to a WC semi two years after what happened in France was great - it’s a good point that a lot of people often overlook. We went from being crap and hopeless to boring but hopeful. I remember thinking, “I actually like the England team again, it isn’t very fun to watch at present but it’s about getting results and bedding in a new group, and more and more exciting and talented young players are about to appear on the scene. The next couple of tournaments should be fantastic - they’ll only get better and stronger.”

Issue being, we’re three years further along and it’s becoming apparent that what might actually be happening is an ultra-defensive manager is never going to make another game enjoyable to watch, and is going to take some of the most exciting attacking players England has had in years and squeeze the life out of them. England can’t have a squad containing players like Kane, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, the pace of Sterling, not to mention flying full backs who play like wingers for their clubs - top clubs who win top trophies regularly - and spend their best years playing hyper-defensive, slow-paced football. It’s like having a garage full of sports cars and never taking them above 50mph, even on a motorway.

I think the English press is continually unhelpful and counterproductive, and I’m rolling my eyes as much at them as I am what’s happening on the pitch, by the way. I’m not screaming “Southgate out” while spitting lager all over the telly, but I do think this isn’t going to cut it at present. It’s a bit of a shame to watch a young team full of so much talent, who largely play so well and with so much intent for their clubs being muzzled. Like I say, the end point will prove the manager right or wrong.
Which is all fair comment, and a balanced view (well in my mind).
 
Harsh on Mings and Stones for me. They weren't s**t. The team performance was however.
They have both been decent so far byut they have faced 2 teams who couldn't score in a brothel - imagine France against them - that's the stuff of nightmares
 
I was only 2 for 1990 so can't really comment on that
I guess I'm more resigned to England's tournament performances than you then, too much baggage from previous failures 😂
 
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In my opinion, this should be the 11 for our next game. Bellingham is a much more physical presence in the middle of midfield and Foden has the ability to turn the ball over and get at the opposition. Grealish and Sancho have to start. Rashford came on last night, and did nothing. Sterling was poor, and surely cannot start another game. Southgate has to get the next 11 right, and let the shackles off! This overly cautious football is rubbish. We have some of the best attacking players on the planet. Let them play!
Sounds great but with Southgate at the helm there is more chance of Maggie Q turning up at my place tonight and begging me for a date
 
All criticism of England on here. No praise for Scotland?

They played so much better than the game against the Czechs. Che Adams was a nuisance, Robertson’s crossing was miles better than anything England offered and they pressed, chased and stifled England first minute until last.

They played well above their level at Wembley. Moan all you like about Southgate (and England fans will in the weird belief that sacking him and starting again will bring untold riches - Southgate is the first manager in a long time who manages the whole process rather than throwing England’s best 11 players on the pitch and crossing his fingers) but give the opposition due credit. That was not a Sweden-style holding on for dear life effort. They have England a damn good game. Better than Croatia did for certain.
Scotland were ok, nothing more in my view. Actually thought they played better against the Czech Republic than against England. When we beat Croatia, I thought people were going over the top, we were ok but nothing more. Same now with Scotland. They hardly created anything the same as England. Phillips did ok against Croatia but the way people were going on you would think it was the greatest performance by an English player ever. He was lucky not to get booked for persistent fouling against Croatia. Billy Gilmour did ok yesterday but in much the same way people went OTT about Phillips against Croatia, people are going OTT about Gilmour last night. Last night to a neutral must have looked like two boring teams.
 
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