Engerland v The Sweaties

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Let's be honest a draw against the team ranked 44 in the world is not very inspiring. On paper the easiest group game. We have the players they just need to be able to play with more freedom. You need to score goals to win tournaments we just seem happy to try to nick one. Kane is fine but he is dropping far too deep to get the ball. He needs crosses but Shaw and James never delivered.
 
QR said:
You were defending his record. So do you think he's good enough?
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This is simplistic. He got to the semis last time, and has just beaten Croatia. He’s more likely to leave for something that appeals more than be sacked.
 
QR said:
You were defending his record. So do you think he's good enough?
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You love a binary question don't you. Good enough for what? I don't believe there is a manager around who could get this current England squad to be the best side in Europe. I don't believe we have 'a golden generation'. And I'm certainly not going to get all shouty after a draw - even one as lacklustre as yesterday, meaning we are in a good place to qualify from the group. What I have done, however, is point out to the hysterical that even in 2 of our best tournaments we were patchy with our form.
 
The proof of the pudding will come in the eating. Qualify from the group and go on to win against some of the better teams, reach the semi final, final or even win it and this result will be forgotten about. However lose in the last-16 and surely Southgate will go…
 
HampshireYellow said:
The proof of the pudding will come in the eating. Qualify from the group and go on to win against some of the better teams, reach the semi final, final or even win it and this result will be forgotten about. However lose in the last-16 and surely Southgate will go…
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He’ll be sacked if we lose to Germany or someone like that? I don’t think so.
 
SteMerritt said:
You love a binary question don't you. Good enough for what? I don't believe there is a manager around who could get this current England squad to be the best side in Europe. I don't believe we have 'a golden generation'. And I'm certainly not going to get all shouty after a draw - even one as lacklustre as yesterday, meaning we are in a good place to qualify from the group. What I have done, however, is point out to the hysterical that even in 2 of our best tournaments we were patchy with our form.
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Binary but fair.

Most half decent managers should be able to marshall the resources at their disposal as the England manager to beat the lower ranked nations most of the time.

The challenge comes when we're up again the top nations. I think Southgate is a top bloke but I don't think he has what it takes to win such games.

As I said I hope to be proven totally wrong and we'll see some football we can be proud of before the end of the tournament.
 
QR said:
Most half decent managers should be able to marshall the resources at their disposal as the England manager to beat the lower ranked nations most of the time.
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Top win percentages as England manager...

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...so he Is doing that.

Yesterday wasn't good. In fact, last 4 games haven't been great, but that doesn't mean he has to go.

Binary viewpoints are rarely fair.
 
werthersoriginal said:
He’ll be sacked if we lose to Germany or someone like that? I don’t think so.
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I guess it depends how it happens. If we luckily scrape past Czech in another drab performance and then are absolutely humiliated by Germany in an abject capitulation then yes, I believe and hope that he will be sacked
 
HampshireYellow said:
I guess it depends how it happens. If we luckily scrape past Czech in another drab performance and then are absolutely humiliated by Germany in an abject capitulation then yes, I believe and hope that he will be sacked
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I should add, for the sake of balance, that if it all clicks and we smash the CR 5-0 and then somehow go out on penalties against Germany despite dominating the game, due to a shocking refereeing performance, we totally deserved to win, then that’s a totally different matter!
 
SteMerritt said:
I don't believe there is a manager around who could get this current England squad to be the best side in Europe.
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Pep?
Klopp?
Ancelotti?
Pochetino?
Graham Potter?
Steven Gerrard?
Even Eddie Howe..

I am sure I have missed a few more…

Gareth Southgate is a Championship level manager, and that’s me being generous. We have some of the best players in the world, and they’re being managed by a charlatan that is scared of death of playing football.

We have big game players that are being managed by a man that played for mid table premier league teams, didn’t once play in Europe at club level, he didn’t win a single major honour, and when it came to big games for England, he bottled it - as we all know. He’s not the man for the job, and that is now more evident than ever. I’m not just referring to last night, either. The brand of football he insists on playing is boring and this generation of talent, deserve a lot better. He has managed one club in his career and he got them relegated.

Let’s be honest, he got the job because he is English and he’s a yes man for the FA.

To suggest there isn’t a manager out there that is capable of getting this team to where they need to be, is quite frankly, nonsense.
 
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LeftSideBoy said:
Pep?
Klopp?
Ancelotti?
Pochetino?
Graham Potter?
Steven Gerrard?
Even Eddie Howe..

I am sure I have missed a few more…

Gareth Southgate is a Championship level manager, and that’s me being generous. We have some of the best players in the world, and they’re being managed by a charlatan that is scared of death of playing football.

We have big game players that are being managed by a man that played for mid table premier league teams, didn’t once play in Europe at club level, he didn’t win a single major honour, and when it came to big games for England, he bottled it - as we all know.

To suggest there isn’t a manager out there that is capable of getting this team to where they need to be, is quite frankly, nonsense.
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Well, is there anything in there that actually needs a reply in sensible debate?

I think you have an over inflated opinion of how good the English players currently are. Our defence, for example, isn't of the standard it has been in the past. Foden, Mount, Grealish... All skillful players with bags of potential, but here and now? Very green at this level. Give them time and a settled system they could be fantastic in the next World Cup. Kane and Stirling? Hot and cold, and I'd say over rated. Would any of our team get into a best European XI? Doubt it very much.

A manager's playing career means nothing. You have to play top level to be a top manager? That will come as news to Jose Mourino and Arrigo Sacchi, for example.

I've never said Southgate is doing a great job, or that he's going to go onto great things in the future, but the over the top reactions on here over the last 20 hours or so have been laughable.
 
SteMerritt said:
A manager's playing career means nothing. You have to play top level to be a top manager? That will come as news to Jose Mourino and Arrigo Sacchi, for example.
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The thing is, those managers that you mention have actually achieved something as a manager. My point is, Gareth Southgate was an average player and is now a below average manager. I wouldn’t want him managing Oxford, let alone England.
 
SteMerritt said:
I've never said Southgate is doing a great job, or that he's going to go onto great things in the future
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No but you seem to be saying he's doing an OK job when compared to previous unsuccessful England managers.
 
LeftSideBoy said:
The thing is, those managers that you mention have actually achieved something as a manager. My point is, Gareth Southgate was an average player and is now a below average manager. I wouldn’t want him managing Oxford, let alone England.
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And that as a point I'll accept, Southgate got the job as he was in the right place at the right time after the Allardyce dismissal. There was nobody else. And I'd suggest there is still nobody else who'd take it on. Guardiola would never take it, Klopp would never take it. Gerrard inexperienced.
 
If the Euros were called off tomorrow and Southgate decided to leave England, what level club team would he get next I wonder?
 
SteMerritt said:
Well, is there anything in there that actually needs a reply in sensible debate?

I think you have an over inflated opinion of how good the English players currently are. Our defence, for example, isn't of the standard it has been in the past. Foden, Mount, Grealish... All skillful players with bags of potential, but here and now? Very green at this level. Give them time and a settled system they could be fantastic in the next World Cup. Kane and Stirling? Hot and cold, and I'd say over rated. Would any of our team get into a best European XI? Doubt it very much.

A manager's playing career means nothing. You have to play top level to be a top manager? That will come as news to Jose Mourino and Arrigo Sacchi, for example.

I've never said Southgate is doing a great job, or that he's going to go onto great things in the future, but the over the top reactions on here over the last 20 hours or so have been laughable.
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LeftSideBoy has been chatting the most B*****s on here since that result.

They’re the embodiment of why I happily distance myself from England fandom and keep a rather relaxed attitude to how the national side get on. Entitled attitude, always thinking England are better than they are, should be doing better against opposition who are clearly better than them and always seeking an excuse to change the manager with ever more identical options. They probably thought Sam Allardyce was a great choice as manager.

Who knows whether Southgate is the right man to finally win something for England? He seems to do some things right and as I mention above has a decent international football philosophy. It’s not stunning to watch but it’s better than not being there at all.
 
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