International News Immigration

[MustardYellow]

Work with other governments to put the gangs behind bars. Ask yourself why do you never heard this from the government as an approach?

No one knows who the gangs are. It's not like they're giving the illegal immigrants their real names and identities - even they don't know who they are.

Even so, once you arrest one gang another will pop up., or people will just find different ways of getting here. It's the market that creates these gangs.

 

[MustardYellow]

It is (of course) a very difficult problem - and one that is shared by many countries worldwide. There *isn't* really a simple answer to it - but getting to the people smugglers behind it might be a start, although that would mean co-operating with other governments, and this little Englander administration seems to feel that isn't something they want to do.

However, one thing that is definitely *not* an answer to it is this Rwanda scheme. They have had to legislate that Rwanda is safe (how that works is anyone's guess!), spent a fortune and wasted hours and hours of judicial and parliamentary time - all on a scheme that isn't a real deterrent and could only be used for a small proportion of the migrants, even if airlines agreed to take part and the courts don't stop it or the Tories are voted out before it actually happens anyway.

Smuggling gangs exist because people want to be smuggled. If no one wanted to buy drugs, you wouldn't have drug gangs - it's the market that creates the spaces for these gangs to exists.

The solution is surely to remove the market. Stop people from wanting to come here through those methods and they won't. How you do that is the question.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Popular among the 'core', ie ageing provincial nazis, yes.

You must be uncomfortable knowing that the majority of UK citizens, based on attitudes in this Yougov poll, are "aging provincial Nazis".



Have you looked into moving to a new country? Perhaps they could find a spot on a Rwanda plane for you.

 

[QR]

No one knows who the gangs are. It's not like they're giving the illegal immigrants their real names and identities - even they don't know who they are.

Even so, once you arrest one gang another will pop up., or people will just find different ways of getting here. It's the market that creates these gangs.

Get a backbone mate. If you adopt that attitude you'd never investigate a single crime!

 

[bazzer9461]

I suppose when Labour get in and scrap the scheme it will give the Tories something to shout about from the other side of the house in an attempt to play up to their core.

Labour will rip up the Rwanda plan but then a question I put out a couple of times in the last couple of years “ where will the migrants be housed?”

 

[MustardYellow]

Get a backbone mate. If you adopt that attitude you'd never investigate a single crime!

What do backbones have to do with this?

I worked with released prisoners for a couple of years, a number of which were in gangs. Arrest one gang member and another just takes their place - it doesn't reduce criminality.

You aren't going to stop the boats by arresting small groups of members of smuggling gangs, and it's completely unrealistic to say 'well let's just arrest all of them then' like some people who have zero idea on how these gangs work do.

These gangs are there because there's the market for them, and for as long as that market exists and people are making money from it you will always have a never ending cycle of participants. It's the same concept with any criminal gang.

Cut off the market, cut off the gangs.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Smuggling gangs exist because people want to be smuggled. If no one wanted to buy drugs, you wouldn't have drug gangs - it's the market that creates the spaces for these gangs to exists.

The solution is surely to remove the market. Stop people from wanting to come here through those methods and they won't. How you do that is the question.

Yep... it's a well known fact that most drug addicts LOVE being drug addicts and wouldn't have made different choices, given a second chance.

Cut down the supply and tackle the problem at source and the problem is then easier to contain. Works for both drugs AND people trafficking.

Tackling the victims as your first line of defence against the problem achieves absolutely nothing, because there will always be a fresh supply of victims be it willing ones or otherwise.

Simply saying tackling and disrupting the source is "too difficult" is a weak and nonsensical approach

Same for the Rwanda "solution" It will achieve very little and cost the earth in the process.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Labour will rip up the Rwanda plan but then a question I put out a couple of times in the last couple of years “ where will the migrants be housed?”

We seem to do OK with the 95% of migrants who come here legally Baz. Why are we getting bent out of shape over the 5%?

 

[bashamwonderland]

We seem to do OK with the 95% of migrants who come here legally Baz. Why are we getting bent out of shape over the 5%?

Do we?? Have you missed the news that we are in a national housing crisis? That we are housing migrants and council tenants in hotels?

I don't think we're doing anything like "OK"!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Smuggling gangs exist because people want to be smuggled. If no one wanted to buy drugs, you wouldn't have drug gangs - it's the market that creates the spaces for these gangs to exists.

The solution is surely to remove the market. Stop people from wanting to come here through those methods and they won't. How you do that is the question.

There is no practical, short term way of making conditions in countries completely stable - war, flood, famine, sea level rise and other climate change will potentially cause migration as well as poor financial outlook for a population. Stop all those and you'd stop migration. But...

There are lots of things people might want (or be tempted to want). But if you make the item or service more difficult to obtain or more problematic to use then use of that service drops.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Do we?? Have you missed the news that we are in a national housing crisis? That we are housing migrants and council tenants in hotels?

I don't think we're doing anything like "OK"!

And the housing crisis is down to migrants is it?

How about successive governments failing to meet housing targets, which was a problem that was there long before we all started getting our knickers in a knot over migrants!

 

[Wandering Yellow]

View attachment 19128

I've seen some dumb quotes in my time, but this takes the biscuit.

 

[bashamwonderland]

And the housing crisis is down to migrants is it?

How about successive governments failing to meet housing targets, which was a problem that was there long before we all started getting our knickers in a knot over migrants!

Your point was that we are doing ok housing everyone, which is simply untrue. Unless you want to stick by that comment and argue that we are doing ok after all??

 

[QR]

I've seen some dumb quotes in my time, but this takes the biscuit.

You won't like this then!

 

[Essexyellows]

Please refer to Page1.

So all these migrants nipping across the Channel in various dinghies etc as featured on the BBC news...........
1. They are leaving a safe country. Last time I checked France was "safe" barring Covid issues.
2. They have travelled through several safe countries.
3. They, generically, have no documents so we can`t check them in any way shape or form.
4. They are entering illegally.

There are proper, legitimate and legal routes they could take and would be welcomed, we are a country of migrants after all.

So why are we not just detaining them, as they are entering illegally without documentation, then loading them onto a ferry and shipping them back to France?

Discuss.

BBC News this AM featuring more dinghies leaving France while some sort of Coastal Protection Vessel sat off shore watching them.

Fully expect the later news to show either a scene of horror as some drown or same dinghies arriving in Kent.

Follow the proper, legitimate, legal routes unless you have something to hide.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Your point was that we are doing ok housing everyone, which is simply untrue. Unless you want to stick by that comment and argue that we are doing ok after all??

Saying an extra 5% is going to make all the difference was the point (when it will barely touch the sides in reality). And whether you approve of it or not, we are housing immigrants who come here, be that in hotels, hostels or elsewhere. It is not ideal, far from it, and made worse by the fact we have an underlying housing crisis, which was an issue way before we all got worked up about the current illegal migrant issues. And as an aside, plenty of those hotels are no longer housing migrants - many of them have closed, so where are they all being housed if we now have vacant hotels that were previously being used? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/100th-asylum-hotel-set-to-close-next-week#:~:text=One hundred asylum hotels will,hotels in the asylum system.

I'd suggest the effect migrants are having on the underlying housing problem, which successive governments have failed to tackle, is being overplayed here. As you rightly say, there are thousands of British Citizens living in temporary accommodation up and down the country because they have been systematically failed by the authorities in provision of adequate housing - where they come from is not really the issue imho.

And which ever way you look at it, removing each individual to a third country costs £63,000 more than it does to house them here. If only that money were spent on something worthwhile, like tackling the huge backlog of outstanding claims, or maybe toward a more cooperative approach to tackling and disrupting the trafficking gangs at source.

 

[Marston Road yellow]

Personally I think that the government are doing a fantastic job of making the UK a far less appealing prospect for any would be asylum seeker/ economic migrant.

They’ve made the NHS and education less desirable, work prospects poorer things more expensive increased the number of potholes, reduced living standards and created a them and us society of foreigners and brits.

Vote Tory to make Britain less of an appealing proposition for any would be refugee.

 

[Marston Road yellow]

It’s costing us about 2million per person to send them to Rwanda.

 

[bashamwonderland]

BBC reporting about the boat which sank earlier:

"The French police had struggled to stop the migrants as they’d charged from the dark sand dunes towards the sea.

Several young men turned round to face the police, brandishing long sticks, and throwing flares or firecrackers."

Excellent. Can't wait to welcome these peace loving, law abiding citizens into our inner city ghettos.

 

[bazzer9461]

We seem to do OK with the 95% of migrants who come here legally Baz. Why are we getting bent out of shape over the 5%?

My question was about the migrants in Hotel accommodation and on the barge and places like that in f there are migrants there who have a legal claim to be here in the Il then we need it sorted get them their asylum status, but then what? Where do we put them?
Your figure of 95% who come here legally are they the boats if so like this morning there was a picture of a large amount of migrants on a boat all young are they legal or illegal. Lots old equalisation that go unanswered by politicians of all persuasion.