Ex Player Herbie Kane

[horseman]

Gorrin got injured before the January transfer window so that’s not completely true, he played from then on there because we refused to sign a like for like replacement.

can you be absolutely certain of that?

 

[werthersoriginal]

can you be absolutely certain of that?

Well, we didn't sign a defensive midfielder - whether we refused to, or he got away, we don't know.

 

[Bornyellow]

I’d sign Kane if we can get it done early for a reasonable fee 600k to me seems fair, as everyone has said in his natural position him and Cam would run the show at this level.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Yes he played several games in his 'true position'. I didn't see them all but didn't think he was that amazing though he looked good against bad teams.

Yes people seem to be slipping into the false narrative that Herbie Kane is a midfielder who was forced to play too deep once Gorrin was injured, which ruined his game. As I remember it, he actually played a few games deep for us, looked great, then was played further forwards and didn’t play well at all. There were then calls for him to be played further back so he could pick the ball up deep and dictate the tempo - so he has played further forwards for us, and didn’t look all that while doing so.

I think he’s a player who thrives against teams who sit off him and let him pick out a pass, and against poor teams, but if we’re under physical pressure or being closed down he can struggle. It’s undeniable he lacks the physicality to truly dominate at this level, but also he was a clear MOTM in plenty of games I saw, and played some amazing passes, so it’s not like he’s a bad player or anything.

 

[Oxford1996]

If the deal is correct, we should sign him

 

[holdsteady]

can you be absolutely certain of that?

Well unless he was invisible yes?

 

[southcoastyellow]

It’s subject to what budget we have for me, but would be worried about KR putting the vast amount of his ‘war chest’ on Kane, the problem this year has been the balance of the squad, so think it needs to be spread more wisely across the squad (unless we have an unlikely 2-3m budget).

 

[Scotchegg]

It’s subject to what budget we have for me, but would be worried about KR putting the vast amount of his ‘war chest’ on Kane, the problem this year has been the balance of the squad, so think it needs to be spread more wisely across the squad (unless we have an unlikely 2-3m budget).

I don't think that kind of budget is unlikely.

 

[battman]

Yes people seem to be slipping into the false narrative that Herbie Kane is a midfielder who was forced to play too deep once Gorrin was injured, which ruined his game. As I remember it, he actually played a few games deep for us, looked great, then was played further forwards and didn’t play well at all. There were then calls for him to be played further back so he could pick the ball up deep and dictate the tempo - so he has played further forwards for us, and didn’t look all that while doing so.

I think he’s a player who thrives against teams who sit off him and let him pick out a pass, and against poor teams, but if we’re under physical pressure or being closed down he can struggle. It’s undeniable he lacks the physicality to truly dominate at this level, but also he was a clear MOTM in plenty of games I saw, and played some amazing passes, so it’s not like he’s a bad player or anything.

It's true that Kane did play there a bit even before Gorrin got injured, and as a deep-lying playmaker he can be effective dictating play from the back. However, to get the best out of him you will either need to play him as one of the midfield two in a 4-2-3-1, or as one of the more advanced midfielders in a 4-3-3.

If you get a midfielder's role right then it can work wonders. But if you ask them to play in a way they're not comfortable with, they'll struggle. I seem to remember that when both Rothwell and Mowatt were here we didn't really know what to do with either of them and they didn't set the world alight. Now they're both established Championship players, because the managers who pick them are playing their strengths.

 

[uptheus]

Get rid…liability

 

[The mighty Aldo]

Get rid…liability

Not when played in the correct position
My thoughts are that he will replace Branagan when he goes

 

[Foley]

Not when played in the correct position
My thoughts are that he will replace Branagan when he goes

'Correct position'
So he can only play 1 role and play him there and he is great and elsewhere he is not?
Some lazy comments to in my view.
As others have said, Gorrin was dropped and Kane was dropped deeper ( when we neeed to win games)

 

[battman]

'Correct position'
So he can only play 1 role and play him there and he is great and elsewhere he is not?
Some lazy comments to in my view.
As others have said, Gorrin was dropped and Kane was dropped deeper ( when we neeed to win games)

Name me a player in our squad who can play more than one role really well? I think you'll find it's the exception and not the rule.

Playing Kane as a holding midfielder week-in week-out against sides who press high is like asking Matty Taylor to play as an aerial target man. Sure it's the same position on the pitch, but it's a completely different role. Whilst a spade's a spade, a midfielder isn't just a midfielder, there are plenty of varieties that suit different players differently.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Playing Kane as a holding midfielder week-in week-out against sides who press high is like asking Matty Taylor to play as an aerial target man. Sure it's the same position on the pitch, but it's a completely different role. Whilst a spade's a spade, a midfielder isn't just a midfielder, there are plenty of varieties that suit different players differently.

If you play Kane higher up the pitch he’s only going to be pressed even more and have even less time on the ball. Yes he lacks the defensive ability and strength to play the holding midfield role well against good sides, but sticking him higher up isn’t going to suddenly mean he isn’t closed down…

 

[horseman]

If you play Kane higher up the pitch he’s only going to be pressed even more and have even less time on the ball. Yes he lacks the defensive ability and strength to play the holding midfield role well against good sides, but sticking him higher up isn’t going to suddenly mean he isn’t closed down…

Picture this

Cam on the ball on the left, a n other slightly further forward..Many times we see a gap just inside and generally a fair amount of space Enter Herbie Kane Slide rule ball to say Baldock running between the defenders= Goal Opportunity no?

 

[Scotchegg]

Was Herbie ever expected to play the defensive midfield role?

Last season we went through a stage of looking fairly solid, but were drawing rather than winning. Gorrin came out and Cam played a little deeper, but as a player to direct play rather than sweep up at the back. We started scoring for fun, but also conceding more - but most importantly we picked up more points.

The reality is that this season, once we lost Gorrin, we changed the way our midfield played and looked to play on the front foot. This was incredibly exciting at times, and Herbie was part of that with some sublime play at times. His vision and passing is as good as anyone in the league, and you only need to speak to the likes of Cam to see how highly Herbie is rated.

Unfortunately, without Gorrin we didn't have the option to keep things tight and win ugly. This has been compounded by the fact that individually, and collectively, our defence has been well below the standard of last season. Last season, Stevens alone saved us several points with penalty saves and worldies almost every game. Sam Long was everywhere. Ruffels, although not at his best, was far more solid than anyone on the left.

I would definitely look to keep Herbie next season and build a midfield with him and Cam as the two in the middle. We would then play a Szmodics type ahead or a Gorrin type behind depending on who we are playing or the status of the game at the time.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Kane wasn’t the main issue this season. The biggest issue is that the defence simply isn’t good enough for promotion. Players like Long and even Moore need someone bringing in who is going to either take the shirt off them or actually make them fight for it until they bleed. They’re good L1 players but they aren’t great, and they have zero meaningful competition. We were better when Cadden was keeping Long out of the side and when Mousinho could still play alongside Dickie regularly, which meant Moore was permanently scrapping to be second choice and had to earn every single appearance, not automatically finding himself as the first name on the sheet.

It’s never going to change until that is sorted, whether it’s Kane, Gorrin or anybody else playing in front of the back line. If you want promotion you have to be ruthless and sign players that disrupt the current pecking order across the pitch, including defence. It’s not about playing style or kicking people until their shins are blue, it’s about balance and blend. We did just fine with a ball playing CDM in Lundstram who couldn’t tackle to save his life, because he had the likes of Wright, Mullins and Skarz behind him. Proper, good quality defenders.

Would happily see Kane stay (although a Gorrin type is needed for style variation as well as depth), but regardless of whether it’s even an option there would be no point unless the defence got sorted first. You could have Kante at CDM let alone Kane and it wouldn’t make much difference.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Kane wasn’t the main issue this season. The biggest issue is that the defence simply isn’t good enough for promotion. Players like Long and even Moore need someone bringing in who is going to either take the shirt off them or actually make them fight for it until they bleed. They’re good L1 players but they aren’t great, and they have zero meaningful competition. We were better when Cadden was keeping Long out of the side and when Mousinho could still play alongside Dickie regularly, which meant Moore was permanently scrapping to be second choice and had to earn every single appearance, not automatically finding himself as the first name on the sheet.

It’s never going to change until that is sorted, whether it’s Kane, Gorrin or anybody else playing in front of the back line. If you want promotion you have to be ruthless and sign players that disrupt the current pecking order across the pitch, including defence. It’s not about playing style or kicking people until their shins are blue, it’s about balance and blend. We did just fine with a ball playing CDM in Lundstram who couldn’t tackle to save his life, because he had the likes of Wright, Mullins and Skarz behind him. Proper, good quality defenders.

Would happily see Kane stay (although a Gorrin type is needed for style variation as well as depth), but regardless of whether it’s even an option there would be no point unless the defence got sorted first. You could have Kante at CDM let alone Kane and it wouldn’t make much difference.

That's true about the defence, but every time a team ran at us big gaps would open up in the midfield - that's more down to the lack of a defensive midfielder, or at least of a defence-minded, schooled midfield, isn't it? I think of it as more of a collective failure than the fault of one person.

 

[battman]

That's true about the defence, but every time a team ran at us big gaps would open up in the midfield - that's more down to the lack of a defensive midfielder, or at least of a defence-minded, schooled midfield, isn't it? I think of it as more of a collective failure than the fault of one person.

Yeah, there's the saying defending as a team, and our attack and defence look disconnected, especially when the other team counter-attacks. When you're playing a 4-3-3, it's not really the responsibility for the 'wingers' to get back and defend, more so for the centre-right and centre-left midfielders to help out by either supporting the defensive midfielder or the full back. If you want to see this working perfectly, then a good example is looking at how Henderson and Thiago operate for Liverpool alongside Fabinho.

When you have this disconnect where the attackers only attack and the defenders only defend, you're left with a back four and goalkeeper that can deal with the first ball (i.e heading it away), but not with the second (when the midfielder is free on the edge of the box, shooting and scoring). It's very easy to blame individual errors in this, and whilst Kane has made some, he's not being helped out by being played instead of a DM and not alongside one. And he's further hampered by the fact that this team isn't set up to defend, rather to score more goals than the opposition.

 

[Mystery Yellow]

Was Herbie ever expected to play the defensive midfield role?

Last season we went through a stage of looking fairly solid, but were drawing rather than winning. Gorrin came out and Cam played a little deeper, but as a player to direct play rather than sweep up at the back. We started scoring for fun, but also conceding more - but most importantly we picked up more points.

The reality is that this season, once we lost Gorrin, we changed the way our midfield played and looked to play on the front foot. This was incredibly exciting at times, and Herbie was part of that with some sublime play at times. His vision and passing is as good as anyone in the league, and you only need to speak to the likes of Cam to see how highly Herbie is rated.

Unfortunately, without Gorrin we didn't have the option to keep things tight and win ugly. This has been compounded by the fact that individually, and collectively, our defence has been well below the standard of last season. Last season, Stevens alone saved us several points with penalty saves and worldies almost every game. Sam Long was everywhere. Ruffels, although not at his best, was far more solid than anyone on the left.

I would definitely look to keep Herbie next season and build a midfield with him and Cam as the two in the middle. We would then play a Szmodics type ahead or a Gorrin type behind depending on who we are playing or the status of the game at the time.

Our defence was not much better last season even tho you’ve made good valid points but 56 goals conceded in 46 games + 6 in 2 playoff games (21 in 48 games we conceded 2 or more) to 58 goals conceded in 45 this season (17 in 45 games we conceded 2 or more)

We need to get back to a solid unit which we have done before it worked successfully in 2019/20 when we only conceded 37 in 35 games & were joint 2nd top goal scorers so it didn’t effect us sacrificing the style we still play today in fact we had much more control in games (if we want any chance of automatic’s next season we can’t concede more than 1 goal a game over 46 (like Rotherham 32 Wigan 41 MK 44 Plymouth 43 have done)