Away Match Day Thread 23/03/2021 L1 Northampton Town v OUFC

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They’ve been two of our best players, Long is probably poty. You can always improve but I’m not sure why you’re focusing on them.
I have said they are good players my point is are they good enough
Take Long as an example at right back
In the past few seasons we have had
Baldock
Kane
Cadden

Are you telling me we can’t do better, I think Long has had a good season but he is only getting a chance because KR played Clare out of position
 
I have said they are good players my point is are they good enough
Take Long as an example at right back
In the past few seasons we have had
Baldock
Kane
Cadden

Are you telling me we can’t do better, I think Long has had a good season but he is only getting a chance because KR played Clare out of position
They were all on loan and too good for us. We need to go up if we want to attract and keep players like that.
 
The line-up was shambolic, and I have no clue what KR was harping on about in the interview afterwards.

Losing faith in KR and fast
 
They were all on loan and too good for us. We need to go up if we want to attract and keep players like that.
Doesn’t matter about loans, Taylor and Browne were on loan and almost got us up last season, had we been promoted we might have persuaded Browne to stay as it was we kept Taylor
 
Karl should be able to swap the players and expect a performance they train together most days you listen to the style of play wanted most days. And let's be honest we were better in the first half last night when we made changes to the team we should have started with ? We were worst it is a squad game. I have Avery good friend who played for Spurs in the late 60s who played over 40 games before Xmas when there was only one sub different days.
That equates to nearly three games a week on a continuous basis on a swamp of a pitch, presuming it is White Hart Lane.
 
I have said they are good players my point is are they good enough
Take Long as an example at right back
In the past few seasons we have had
Baldock
Kane
Cadden

Are you telling me we can’t do better, I think Long has had a good season but he is only getting a chance because KR played Clare out of position
Long and Gorrin are definitely good enough to earn us promotion in their positions.
Now , the midfield and its lack of creativity / goals has been the massively biggest issue this season . No doubt about it fix that and majority of our problems are solved.
 
In fairness, Grayson was touted as a utility man.

"I’ve known about Joe for a long time and I want to thank Blackburn for their help because they have been excellent with us. He has a very good left foot and covers us at left-back, left sided centre-half or in a holding role in midfield. I even saw him play left wing on loan at Grimsby but I don’t think that’s really his best position."
KR
But how many utility men do we have? Forde switching from right back to central midfield to right wing, Agyei being a winger then a striker then a winger again, Sykes & Henry switching between playing on the right and the centre, Long being our first choice right back whilst also being our centre back and left back cover, Obita being signed as our left back option but playing mostly on the left wing, Karl still not knowing whether Hanson is a central midfielder or a right back, Clare being signed as a right back despite looking unsuited to it then being moved to the wing.

This team needs specialists. I've said it before, but the way we got out of our poor start to the season was when Karl stopped trying to 'make things work' with different players playing in a whole host of other positions. What we needed was an experienced centre back at the start of the season, and as things have gone on Moore & Atkinson have settled in well, but the need for an experienced central defender was still there. Signing a 21-year-old Grayson on loan wasn't the answer to any of our questions.
 
But how many utility men do we have? Forde switching from right back to central midfield to right wing, Agyei being a winger then a striker then a winger again, Sykes & Henry switching between playing on the right and the centre, Long being our first choice right back whilst also being our centre back and left back cover, Obita being signed as our left back option but playing mostly on the left wing, Karl still not knowing whether Hanson is a central midfielder or a right back, Clare being signed as a right back despite looking unsuited to it then being moved to the wing.

This team needs specialists. I've said it before, but the way we got out of our poor start to the season was when Karl stopped trying to 'make things work' with different players playing in a whole host of other positions. What we needed was an experienced centre back at the start of the season, and as things have gone on Moore & Atkinson have settled in well, but the need for an experienced central defender was still there. Signing a 21-year-old Grayson on loan wasn't the answer to any of our questions.
I don't disagree...you have to consider the then-valid squad cap mind. Players like Forde are very useful in such cases and I'm sure Grayson was looked at with this in mind as back-up. He hasn't had a wonderful start, to put it mildly!
 
I have said they are good players my point is are they good enough
Take Long as an example at right back
In the past few seasons we have had
Baldock
Kane
Cadden

Are you telling me we can’t do better, I think Long has had a good season but he is only getting a chance because KR played Clare out of position
Sam Long is one of the best defenders in the league, and probably the best defensive right back. You mention Baldock and I'll throw Kenny into the mix as well, the reason why that worked for the league we were in was because of our other full-back: Skarz. He did a bit of attacking but was more reserved, and that balanced well with the attacking full back on the other side.

Long offers protection to the defence that Ruffs can't always, and Ruffs can bring goals and the odd assist to his game. So whilst we could upgrade on them both, they're more than good enough to get us promoted from this division. The main problem is not having any cover for them when they aren't available.
 
I don't disagree...you have to consider the then-valid squad cap mind. Players like Forde are very useful in such cases and I'm sure Grayson was looked at with this in mind as back-up. He hasn't had a wonderful start, to put it mildly!
Yeah I understand that, it's always useful to have a handful of players who can play in a couple of positions. But the recruiters have gone overboard with this, and all it leads to is a disjointed side that aren't playing in their preferred and strongest positions week in, week out.
 
I think KR's biggest issue when it comes to recruitment is he seems to look for potential in every player he signs. We seem to sign a lot of "this player could be amazing if he lives up to his potential". Often it works, Whyte, Browne, Moore, Atkinson, Fosu, Cadden, Gorrin. But equally it has lumped us with a number of players who once were very solid championship players, but now can't stay fit enough to walk out the treatment room ie Holmes, Carruthers, Winnall, Thorne, Lee, Hanson, or players who are wildly inconsistent or downright rubbish, ie Garbutt, Sinclair, Jonte and Sam Smith, Woodburn, Kelly, Grayson, Shodipo. One thing that we don't seem to do anywhere near enough is sign reliable, fit league one quality players. Sure, they probably won't do much in a Championship side, but they'll give you 7/10 performances every week in League 1.
Right, this.

I’ve said this dozens of times before and I’m glad somebody else has flagged this at long last. He’s constantly trying to retrain people and change their position, and banging on about how they need to learn to play a different way. Clare turned up in the summer with no idea as to how to play right back - he openly said he was having to study right backs to learn the role, watching videos and the like because he’s learning it from scratch - and then has to learn on the job against established League One players. And people wonder why he looked poor and stood out as part of another bad start to the season? He was an attacking midfielder at Hearts and even wore the number 9 shirt for a time, but of course we know he plays somewhere else really. There’s just no way he can’t be improved and moulded by our incredible coaching that sees things nobody else does, including the players themselves. If only we had Clare now, eh, given everybody is saying we need an attacking midfielder who can carry the ball forward with a bit of pace. Well, we signed one on a three year deal, but then we lobbed him at right back, moved him further forward after a while where he was instantly better, and then loaned him out.

We see this obsession with ‘improving’ players fairly often. Agyei can be a winger, Mackie can become a striker as his legs have gone, Hanson can go in at right back, same for Forde, Clare’s another, Woodburn can play four different roles, Sykes can go... well, all over the bloody place it seems. We’re regularly being told there are players who need to learn to play somewhere else or who can do a job. Here’s a thought... sign players who play in the position you want improving and just make them better at it? Sign a right back and improve them? Sign a winger and improve them? Sign a midfielder and improve them? Worst case scenario they’re a bit average and hopefully get better over time, best case scenario they’re decent to begin with and soon become very good. Maybe we would actually start a season fairly well if we weren’t always shuffling players around and trying to retrain some of them, and if on top of that we didn’t seem to regularly be bringing in players who aren’t fit or are carrying knocks that then turn into injuries. It’s always about potential. “They’ll be better when they learn a new role. They’ll be great once they get fit. They’re a real asset if we can get to the bottom of the injury.”

I would love to just sign players who play the roles we want them to play, and who are fit and ready. But maybe that just isn’t sexy enough.

EDIT: I’ve seen the squad cap cited as a reason why you need players moving all over the place. Even with a 20-man limit of players over 21 that’s basically two players for every role. You can have two keepers, four full backs, three centre backs, five centre midfielders, four wingers and two centre forwards who are all over 21, and that’s fine. That’s without anybody genuinely being able to play two roles or including anybody under 21.
 
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Bazzer
I was one saying that. Long is a decent right back and Gorrin is a decent holding midfielder but if we want promotion we need better and indeed have had better not so long ago
Well Long has been brilliant after his first injury, and your argument we need better for promotion then that will apply to all the first team needing to better.
 
That equates to nearly three games a week on a continuous basis on a swamp of a pitch, presuming it is White Hart Lane.
The League cup was home and away European games were home and away and Xmas Iam sure he told me they played Xmas day and boxing day brutal.
That equates to nearly three games a week on a continuous basis on a swamp of a pitch, presuming it is White Hart Lane.
 
Right, this.

I’ve said this dozens of times before and I’m glad somebody else has flagged this at long last. He’s constantly trying to retrain people and change their position, and banging on about how they need to learn to play a different way. Clare turned up in the summer with no idea as to how to play right back - he openly said he was having to study right backs to learn the role, watching videos and the like because he’s learning it from scratch - and then has to learn on the job against established League One players. And people wonder why he looked poor and stood out as part of another bad start to the season? He was an attacking midfielder at Hearts and even wore the number 9 shirt for a time, but of course we know he plays somewhere else really. There’s just no way he can’t be improved and moulded by our incredible coaching that sees things nobody else does, including the players themselves. If only we had Clare now, eh, given everybody is saying we need an attacking midfielder who can carry the ball forward with a bit of pace. Well, we signed one on a three year deal, but then we lobbed him at right back, moved him further forward after a while where he was instantly better, and then loaned him out.

We see this obsession with ‘improving’ players fairly often. Agyei can be a winger, Mackie can become a striker as his legs have gone, Hanson can go in at right back, same for Forde, Clare’s another, Woodburn can play four different roles, Sykes can go... well, all over the bloody place it seems. We’re regularly being told there are players who need to learn to play somewhere else or who can do a job. Here’s a thought... sign players who play in the position you want improving and just make them better at it? Sign a right back and improve them? Sign a winger and improve them? Sign a midfielder and improve them? Worst case scenario they’re a bit average and hopefully get better over time, best case scenario they’re decent to begin with and soon become very good. Maybe we would actually start a season fairly well if we weren’t always shuffling players around and trying to retrain some of them, and if on top of that we didn’t seem to regularly be bringing in players who aren’t fit or are carrying knocks that then turn into injuries. It’s always about potential. “They’ll be better when they learn a new role. They’ll be great once they get fit. They’re a real asset if we can get to the bottom of the injury.”

I would love to just sign players who play the roles we want them to play, and who are fit and ready. But maybe that just isn’t sexy enough.

EDIT: I’ve seen the squad cap cited as a reason why you need players moving all over the place. Even with a 20-man limit of players over 21 that’s basically two players for every role. You can have two keepers, four full backs, three centre backs, five centre midfielders, four wingers and two centre forwards who are all over 21, and that’s fine. That’s without anybody genuinely being able to play two roles or including anybody under 21.
Assuming they're all fit and not suspended, of course.
Ruffels was a central midfielder before being remodelled as a pretty decent (but no more) left back. Aside from him, I got nothing really, at least at OUFC. Long? Wasn't he more a CB at youth level? Certainly enough evidence for a change of approach, in any case.
 
Talking of Clare, his goal last night was a beauty. Robbo didn't think he was good enough in midfield or right back that's why he was loaned out.
He wasn't really given a chance in midfield though.
JFH was aware of it and had done his homework. He didn't hesitate to take him and use him there immediately.
 
One has to trust the manager as he sees all the players in training but, having made his selection for matches, why can we all hear KR screaming instructions at the top of his voice from the touchline from the very first minute? Something is not right.
 
Teams that press us high beat us. Our midfielders crumble under any kind of pressure. Take gorrin yeterday as an example he couldnt make a 5 yard pass.
 
I think Karl should take a week off and let Mous and the players work out their own plan. Wont happen obviously you would like to think he does actually listen to them though.
 
Talking of Clare, his goal last night was a beauty. Robbo didn't think he was good enough in midfield or right back that's why he was loaned out.
Well then maybe Karl's not the best judge of quality then? Especially when our options on the right recently have been Lee (better as number 10), Barker (left side), Shodipo (left side), Hall (past it), Henry (out of form), Forde & Sykes (who knows where their best positions are). To loan him out specifically to free up space - only to bring in other players who weren't better suited to the right wing - was poor imo.
 
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